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    Results 141 to 160 of 169

    Thread: Dragonfly's 2013 Backyard Breeding

    1. #141
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      Dragonfly, I have 98% all black fry and I can only cull for deformities and sickness until they get bigger with more established patterns. I see some checker board show quality shiro utsuri but they can be ruined with a spot of red as they grow. Showa is hard because I dealing with two patterns (red and black).

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    2. #142
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      Well I spent a coupe of hours moving about 5000 fry from their outgrown 100 gallon tub in the basement to the 8' pool in the garage. They are much happier with their new home and it will help me as far as water quality too. Now I just have to get them to grow faster!
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    3. #143
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      looking good ! how's the culling going !sizing is the most important thing now !.
      And light if your pool is in a garage you may need more light ,and a little tip is 24 hrs of light this will keep water quality also as your PH won't sink and if you have plants they won't die off and cause plant matter to block filters and filter returns and feeds !.
      Also the addition of koi vits will help development and colours so its easy to cull fry early and keep on top of the task and keep the right fish to grow on it also helps quick scale development as well so you can see scales better ,and lustre on the skin ,also when feeding use a week on high protein and a week off and put them on wheat-germ and garlic crushed pellet along with medikoi health to help build a immune system .
      the high protein diet I use is scrambled egg yolk and milk whisked and boiled then cooled and pressed through a sieve this will help build them up and get full body's and grow quickly !.
      But you will need to siphon off any left after two hours ,and add bakers yeast every week at 25 grams per 500 gallons UV light till 4 months old ,as insuforia are abundant if you add some brown lettuce and brown banana skins ,and this will help keep water clear and full of natural foods along with your extra feeding .
      Also if indoors buff up with a buffer to keep good water ,limestone chips or dolomite at kg per 500 gallons for a good GH and coral kg per 500 gallons for a good KH ,you may need more or less depending on your local water ! .
      as you may see your GH and KH sink indoors with lack of natural sunlight over 14 days !.
      All the best !
      Last edited by wayne1; 09-06-2013 at 06:24 AM.

    4. #144
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
      Showa is hard because I dealing with two patterns (red and black).
      Technically speaking you are wrong. For showa you check on white and red as it is a black koi. (just check inside the mouth).

    5. #145
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      Thanks for the info Wayne! I just started turning the lights off at night, so I will have to correct that. As far as color goes the black fry are giving way to small patches of white, still not sure if they will become showa or matsukawabake at this point. The kohaku fry are the hardest for me to cull as any beni patterns are very light and hard to see. They seem to take forever to develop this.

      I'm not sure what koi "vits" are to help with color, never heard the term.

      I have been using banana skins and it has been working well. I learned that from your earlier posts. It really does work!

      Gonna have to give the egg yolk thing a try. How big do they have to be when you stop this process? Thanks.

      Steve

    6. #146
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      Wouter, what should I be seeing inside of a koi's mouth to indicate a Showa? Thats new to me. Thanks.
      Very small mouths at this point! LOL

    7. #147
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      Maybe next time I should pair only shiro utsuri that way I don't have to worry about soiling my art with red ink. Anyway, there always seem to be something wrong with the perfect looking fish. I put a large well define shiro utsuri fry in my 5 gallon aquarium to have a closer look .Yes, it was to good to be true, it had a deformity; I saw a small smooth notch around the line of it's gill plate (sigh). Furthermore, the black fry with a greenish tint to it seem to be the ones that will turn into pattern showa. I found a picture of the large defined shiro utsuri before it got bigger. I just notice that I had it, you can see the notch.Name:  DSCF0769.jpg
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      Last edited by Roger; 09-17-2013 at 09:07 PM.

    8. #148
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
      Maybe next time I should pair only shiro utsuri that way I don't have to worry about soiling my art with red ink. Anyway, there always seem to be something wrong with the perfect looking fish. I put a large well define shiro utsuri fry in my 5 gallon aquarium to have a closer look .Yes, it was to good to be true, it had a deformity; I saw a small smooth notch around the line of it's gill plate (sigh). Furthermore, the black fry with a greenish tint to it seem to be the ones that will turn into pattern showa.
      Hi Roger & Dragonfly
      Showa are the most inbred type so you will get this and that's why its best to have a large spawn and cross out with shiro utsuri ,you may find a Hi utsuri or Ki utsuri better for showa pairings to produce utsuri and showa .
      As for Black in the mouth this is the last stage ,as sumi forms from the tail to the head for showa and you will start to see a black line along the back bone as fry transform and get scalation and guanin forms and some will be better than others ! ,pick out these and you will be on the right track as these will have the best skin quality ,also showa will show three patches of sumi and ideally run no lower than the lateral line unlike shiro utsuri will wrap around the bottom and strait through this half way line .
      Any sanke that show in a showa line will be quite different sumi and always down the back and patches ,showa sumi is quite different and will start as little spots and then form into blocks ,depending on what brood fish is used you may get both types of sumi on fry if sanke and showa are crossed .
      Looking at the fry pic's your fry look more sanke base yellow and white fry but if showa are in the mix and utsuri you may well get sumi of both types on your fry and then its all up to how the genes stack up and give way to the strongest gene set which is all dependant on the line of brood fish used .

    9. #149
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      I bowled up a couple of my black fry this morning. The smallest one seems to be developing into a shiro, but I don't know about the rest.

      I also pulled a couple that have the net pattern throughout, and what seems to be beni coming up. I don't know what they will become at this point because they look greenish in color.
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    10. #150
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      Very interesting, will be very interested to see how these develop!

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    11. #151
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      Quote Originally Posted by lifeoffaith View Post
      Very interesting, will be very interested to see how these develop!
      Steve they look good ! nice and chunky and hi coming in yellow form originally from Ki utsuri in the line !,last pic looks like a chagoi ! and yes you have matsuwabake (white belly's) ,karasu all black ,very nice to have as well as showa baby's' !.
      well done ,Egg yolk or scrambled can be fed right up to adult fish ,and is best fed every other day as any left will cause sulphur Hydrogen gas build up if you over feed ! ,so little and often to build fry or a one per week treat ,or daily siphoning off of any waste of this food !,also its good to build fish up before winter to put fat on for winter but you should always give a two week rest before winter starts and then feed Garlic and wheat-germ foods .
      I plan my feeding and I use NT-LAB'S foods as they have the best feeding advice and programme for koi .
      Koi -Vits are one of their products used world wide and is ideal to get vitamins down fish quickly for good recovery and also used to get colours on fry quickly to cull easily and see what colours are there ,it also helps produce koi fry of the best strength and immunity they can have as the vitamins give them a head start .
      Having said all that the spawn has to be of quality and bred from good healthy fish in the start ,and this product I use to help also with brood fish before spawning as it helps them get into good condition and you have less problems ,it can be sprayed on food or put right into the water or both to help recovery of sick fish also.
      Honey is also another great food for colour when mixed into powder pellets and propolis also made from bee's this helps the koi's immune system ! at 3-4 months and onwards it helps keep healthy fingerling's and adult fish .
      Also made by NT-LABS you get Medi koi herbs and propolis pellets and out of all the foods i have used you can quickly see results its made in the UK ! .
      I use it every season at the end of the year for three weeks ,then on to Garlic and wheat germ going into winter ,but that's here in the UK.

    12. #152
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      Thanks Wayne! I tried the egg yesterday and the fry went wild for it like they do the bloodworms. The fish are staying indoors for the winter in heated tanks so they should do well. I'm going to try some more of your recommendations and will keep posting progress. Next up....Honey.

    13. #153
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      well done Steve ! just don't over feed ! its easy to do with new foods ,so little and often or once per week treats ,and just keep a eye on water quality !.
      It will be good to see these grow out and get to adult fish ! the black looks great and I can see the showa patterns coming and shiro and possibly ki utsuri coming !.

    14. #154
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      Quote Originally Posted by dragonfly1976 View Post
      Wouter, what should I be seeing inside of a koi's mouth to indicate a Showa? Thats new to me. Thanks.
      Very small mouths at this point! LOL
      A showa's mouth should show black.. that you don't see with a Sanke.. but you are right with this fry it is practically impossible.

    15. #155
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      Showa fry are black at day 4 ,and sanke are yellow and black day 10-14 easy ! kohaku are yellow golden 10 days ! .

    16. #156
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      Very well done spawning mat! makes mine look pathetic!

    17. #157
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      Sorry, haven't posted for a while as its my busy season. The good koi are in a 6' show tank and growing well, most about 3-4" long. Mostly kohaku and a lot of matsukawabake with interesting patterns, some with heavy nettting that looks cool. There is also a couple sanke, and ochiba from the second spawn mixed in. I will only keep so many for winter and then sell them off locally first thing in the spring to pay for all my food costs. I have 5 tanks going now with various sizes and it is a lot of hard work feeding and keeping up with water changes. I will post some updated pics soon.

    18. #158
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    19. #159
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      Pretty sure there is a "Stephen" in the batch as well.........

    20. #160
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      Good to get an update. Also like to read the tidbits that Wayne slips into.

      proudly Canadian

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