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    Thread: Moving into Sanke

    1. #21
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      Hi Hi Wombat !
      well its a good start and in a smaller pond its easy to cull and grow on and get a faster result !plus you should have some good tempratures in Oz ! better than my welsh weather !lol ! .but I see your having bad weather as well with all those floods !.
      do you feed clay at all as this is good to bring out colours and patterns just like mud ponds ! I use Boiled barley and clay paste with added crushed silkworm this works well and gets a good skin luster and hi and sumi and shiroji .
      this is also a good conditioning food before spawning koi .

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    2. #22
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      G'day Wayne1,
      Just got back from a little drive around and finally the roads are open again. I am not sure if that is a good thing it means I have to go back to work. I have recently started adding bentonite clay to a food supliment I make after reading about it somewhere on this forum. It is to early to see any benefit but they seem to like the food with the added clay.I will also add boild barley to my mix. I have never come across silkworm here but I do give them live earth worms often.
      cheers.

    3. #23
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      G'day all,
      Showa are my third big challange. Can't say that I am real happy about my progress so far but everyone say's it takes a lot of years with this variety. Summer here has been realy hot and the high water temps seem to have badly affected the Showa. I am hoping they will improve when it cools down. Here are some photo's of my foundation stock, they are from one to three years old. The fourth fish is doits which I hope to breed with next season.
      Cheers
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    4. #24
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      Hi Wombat
      well earthworms a good food as well for conditioning most fish and they love them ! silkworm pupae are dryed and needs soaking or crushing and mixing ,and is a high protein food for good skin luster and colour also and should only be fed above 65f .
      I must say your showa are very good and that Doitsu is very nice and looks to be a linear scaled mirror type so great for breeding ! a nice chunky fish and thick tail tube so looks good and strong ! a good breeding fish ! .
      The only thing showa suffer from is lots of deformites as its the most inbred koi type so breeding out with a magoi or Asagi can be of benifit as showa like sanke suffer from getting smaller as you breed your line with related koi but thats not untill you get down the line to F5-7 and its just about selection of the best size and pattern ,if you can create another line as you go you can then cross them over at say F6 to avoid size loss or inject some magoi !.
      Also using Shiro utsuri with showa is also another good type to use to keep size and better patterns and also crossing with Doitsu showa ,and you may also find more showa are produced than showa to showa crossings ,as these mostly produce a high persentage poor kohaku and utsuri and few good showa .
      but its all on the line you are using and its grand parent fish .

    5. #25
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      G'day Wayne1,
      Glad you like my Showa and your right it is hard to find good big Showa here. I would not have thaught about crossing one with Asagi and now you have me thinking. A mate has a very large female Asagi and male Showa which is a very solid fish and might be willing to spawn these come spring. They would certainly add big genes if nothing else.
      Cheers

    6. #26
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      Hi Wombat
      Yes adding Asagi will deepen red (hi) and Asagi gene's will give bigger fish ,also due to Magoi way back in its gene pool ! and you will also produce a better sumi and some kage showa as well !.
      I must say your eye for good quality is very good and you have the right breeders goal ! keeping size and pattern and bone body formation and a nice thick tail tube is a good indicator ,and having a Doitsu in the line would help and produce a good body along with the fact you will then have all scaled and doitsu types in that line !.
      which is important and would complete the line and keep it producing well and work with it and conrol it as you progress !.
      It's all on the culling and adding good fish as you go to breed in good points and breed out bad point's .
      Looking at it from here you have a good eye so I think you have it covered for your breeding ! .
      As for those dam birds !!! keep em well covered and keep your best potential new brood fish in a safe place as this can put you back ! as I know only know to well with dam otters and mink, !!! here on the Gower in Wales uk. lol !! .
      But now I have plenty of koi but it has taken me 4 years to recover to better breeding and investing in new fish houses ! and I have just built one just for Ki shusui ! lol so all I can say is good luck and keep those birds out !!! as you have some really nice koi growing out !.
      Last edited by wayne1; 03-20-2013 at 05:38 AM.

    7. #27
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      G'day Wayne1,
      Thank's again for your encouraging words. Since getting into this Koi obsession I have studied a massive amount of Koi photo's and have developed strong ideas about the characteristics I want to create in my Koi. It's starting to come together with the Gosanke and next spring I might start on some other varieties. I must say I find your post's on this forum very interesting and your Koi set up sound's extensive. Just wondering if you are a buisness venture or hobbiest gone megga.
      Cheers.

    8. #28
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      Hi Wombat
      Well I have a small fish house which is a converted garage 38ft x 12 feet and another fish house 14 feet x 12 feet and lots of fish tanks for fry production and around 3,000 gallons indoor vats and ponds ,I used to be a koi dealer and Garden maintence ,filter specialist making one off filters mainly trickle filtration and having a large farm back in Essex with over 30 mud ponds of various sizes up to one million gallons ,but sold up around ten years ago to live in wales !.
      I now only run a small set up but still produce lots of fry and fingerlings and adult fish to sell on as this is a expensive hobby to run so what i make is put back to help pay my food and electric bills etc... ,
      So only a hobbist now and a past time that I love ,koi are my life ! I live koi 24/7 thats me its in the blood so thats me a '' KOI KICHI '' which started 38 years ago at the age of 14 years breeding Shusui ! and here at 52 years breeding Ki shusui -Aya Wakabs my own line ! which i never thought possable but had the fish to do it with !so when i first saw my first '' ki shusui '' in 1978 this fish had me hooked ! but I never thought possable I could actuyally breed one !.
      So what im trying to say is you can produce your own lines even in a small set up it doe's not have to be MEGGA !!!! LOL !.
      and you can breed the '' holy grail of the koi world '' ,many people here in the uk still don't belive me that i have bred my own ! as they are so rare ,so im chuffed at that little fact that i have !,so in this hobby you can do it so have a go and your fish will reward you for all the hard work you put in !.
      Like me I feel you are ''KOI KICHI '' SO give it a go I'm sure you will have '' your Fish of dreams '' !!!!.
      and looking at your fish you have a very good start !.
      Last edited by wayne1; 03-23-2013 at 07:02 AM.

    9. #29
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      G'day all,
      Wayne1, great stuff, you are doing an amazing job is a small area. Over the years I have been involved in breeding many things(birds,reptiles,tropical fish etc.) but Koi have a majic of there own. Most of my time now is spent playing with the Koi and growing my own food. I have a bit more space to play in (Australia is full of space) but not much money to play with so the Koi project is small scale but enjoyable. Keep the non beliver's guessing mate.
      Cheers.

    10. #30
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      Hi wombat
      Well like me you are enjoying your koi and the pleasure they bring to us and we know the rewards are we have the staisfaction we can create our own Dream fish!
      with some experimental breeding and knowlage of been a Aquaculturist helps and the use of the right foods and Sunshine (good weather )
      We are getting more bad weather in and I just hope it will be a good summer this year ! as we see snow return when its the first days of spring !lol here in the uk !!! .
      So all my fish are under cover or indoors till this period of bad weather passes ! and I hope for a sunny year ,it will make all the differance to my fry this year !so lets hope for a good one !.
      how's the weather with you and I hope the flooding has stopped for you !.
      Last edited by wayne1; 03-24-2013 at 07:25 AM.

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    11. #31
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      Wombat and Wayne, I am enjoying this thread.. I haven't done any breeding of koi at all, but I find it extremely interesting and something I would like to play around with a little someday.. I'm a big fan of Maxine and what she is doing in New York with the ki shusui.. I couldn't imagine living in Australia and not being able to import any oyagoi to work with... you seem to be doing quite well in spite of it.. nice work
      DAN







    12. #32
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      G'day all,
      The floods are gone,it does'nt cause me any great problem because I am on high ground but all the roads out of this place go underwater when the rivers burst their banks. Anyway the weather has returned to fine and rather hot for this time of year and should give my fingerlings an extra month or so of growing. I hope you warm up there soon because I am coming over to visit my relatives and I hate being cold. Powerman, breeding is a lot of hard work but it keeps me at home and out of trouble. I look at photo's of Japanese Koi and use them to establish my own goals for my breeding project's. So far I have been extremely selective about color characteristics but from here on I am more interested in building size on a solid frame. One good thing about being isolated from the rest of the world is we don't have KHV to worry about.
      cheers

    13. #33
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      Hi Wombat & Powerman
      well yes Im a bit cold here in the uk heating full on !lol and its suppose to be spring !lol !!
      good old British weather !!!.
      Still it can change pritty quick here been on a penislular and i'm looking forward to a good summer !lol ! .
      Wombat -that's good to hear your on high ground and floods don't cause you to much bother as they can be devistating ! .
      and its good to hear your breeding is on track and looking very good from here ! ,and the fact you have a ban on imported koi must be a problem of getting new blood into lines ,but its a big old country so should be good for a long time yet !.
      Powerman = it's a great part of the hobby and it will give great pleasure and achivement and great fish that you may not see every day all dependant on types cross and back crossed etc.. bred !.
      but well worth a go if you have the time ! and i recommend it to anybody out there give it ago !.
      Last edited by wayne1; 03-25-2013 at 01:58 AM.

    14. #34
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      You would think out of 3,000 fry you will come out with a lot of high quality fish, but I just went through that and ended up with six that might make the A grade.

    15. #35
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      G'day all,
      Hi Rodger, I would be happy with six A grade fish from three thousand. When you only have the facility to manage small numbers of fry (in my case I keep about 1 -5 thousand fry from each spawn) it a miricle you get any thing at all worth growing on. My goal,s at this time is to develop breeding stock with the genetic characteristics I desire to reliably produce reasonable quantities of high class koi. It would be VERY nice to be able to make my selection from 2 or 3 hundred thousand fry and it would be a more accurate sample of the spawn rather than hoping a good fluke fish has got what I want to continue the quest.
      Cheers

    16. #36
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      Wombat,
      I bred a male Hoshikin Kohaku with his sister a Tancho and I had a lot of deformities, seem like over 95% of them had something wrong with them. I kept 3 Tancho, 2 Kohaku, 1 persimon orange Aka Muji, and 1 crimson red Aka Muji. The body on the orange and red fish had that grow big look, so I kept them. What really concerned me about this spawn was some tails didn't form directly in the middle, it favored one side on the left or the right. It seems to be balancing out as they get bigger. The next time I will not use brother and sister.
      Last edited by Roger; 04-01-2013 at 04:27 PM.

    17. #37
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      Wombat,
      One more thing unusual about my Kohaku spawn was that the first time the pair dropped eggs they didn't hatch. After the failed spawn, I fed them heavy for one or two months and changed the water. I stopped feeding them prior to the full moon, started a very slow trickle flow of water to refill and stopped filtering my 600 gal breeding tank. I dropped in the breeding mops and got them to spawn again, but this time the eggs hatched.

    18. #38
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      G'day all,
      Had to do a bit of pond reorganisation so I thaught I would re visit this thread with some up date pic's of the 2012 fry I ended up keeping.
      So far our winter has been fairly mild and water temps. are hanging aroud 15oC. The fish are still feeding well so may grow a bit more now they are in a bigger pond.
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    19. #39
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      You have some good looking fish.
      Anne-------American by birth; Southern by the grace of God!!




    20. #40
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      Sorted out the Kohaku fry, these are what I kept to grow on a bit. The three metaliks are from an unplanned Kujaku spawn. I thaught these might be interesting to watch grow.
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