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Thread: Moving into Sanke

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    Moving into Sanke

    G'day all,
    The general opinion is that Sanke are difficult and after two spawns I agree.
    My first spawn was from two very old fish that displayed the genitic trates I want to promote. I kept 5 fish from this spawn (all turned out to be male). The two largest of these were put to a female I got from a friend. The pick's are some of these offspring I have kept to grow on. At this time they were 8 weeks old.
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    Hi Wombat
    well The way Sanke is its still a un fixed breed but at Shintaro farm he has got it to around 85% and with a few more breeding old tricks this can be improved on ,as with most koi breeding you can inject other koi to improve production !.
    And the best one here is '' Akemi ki goi '' a red eyed yellow koi !.
    I know what your next question is well why use a yellow koi ! well its a resessive gene ! so it will help produce a koi without influenecing the type bred so creating 85%-95% all of what you want so if you have a very good sanke female you would place it with two male akemi ki goi or round the other way it also works well !.
    and this koi will improve your stock but that would be all on the culling !.
    alow the akemi ki goi is ressesive gene fish you will still get red eyes but this disapears at 1 year old as the fish grow out ! and you will get the odd one or two that will keep red eyes !.
    this type of breeding gives you better spawns and less culling if good fish are used but with any koi you will get some deformities due to in breeding !.
    the only problem i see is obtaining the akemi ki goi good stock is hard to find and a light lemon colour without orange patches are the best of the best as many have orange patches which will come out on fry so pick the best when you can !.
    But like most koi your after it can be like hunting for the '' holy grail !lol '' .
    but you could breed your own from Asagi and KOHAKU ! as I have done and you would only get around 25% so Ahard fish to breed but it is possable .
    Also another fish in breeding thats good and you will not see ,not even in a book is Shiro Akemi goi a white pink eyed koi also bred from kohaku and Asagi These are the very best for breeding and are almost 95% ressesive so give better results .
    Also when breeding with Akemi ki goi the more you put this fish into a line you will get metalic fish so creating a differant fish at around x 4-6 ,but like any fish breeding your stock will get smaller but better colours ,so its important to add new bigger and better fish as you go to keep size and fins correct size !.
    A lot of breeders will also use other ''go sanke types ''with each other so showa,shiro bekko,shiro utsuri,and Kohaku to improve size and patterns and also produce a more productive spawn less culls ,and this works well

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    G'day Wayne1,
    Thanks for your input always looking for alternative when breeding, to be honest I have never herd of or others talk of Akemi Ki goi down here. From there description it is highly likely they would be culled early from most spawns. I will raise this subject with those more experienced than myself. My set up allows me to manage around a thousand fish which I like to get back to about one hundred before the colder weather moves in so culling is early and harsh. I think I have about fifty of these pictured here. The aim being to keep fish that demonstrate a good Kohaku pattern particularly about the head and sumi distributed lightly and evenly over the body shirogi.
    Beni covering the entire head and heavy sumi on the tail half of the fish seems to be a problem here in Sanke lines.
    Cheers.

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    G'day all,
    It's been flogging down rain now for three days and I am now flooded in and unable to go anywhere. For something to do I decided to cull the Sanke to what I want to keep. They are a month older and have grown a bit so took these photo's for my records. I won't disturb these fish again until next spring.
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    It'll be interesting to see them develop
    I like the 2nd and 3rd...
    -Rain


    :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

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    Wayne always give away a lot of great information.. thats why i love to read his posts.

    I think those sanke are great.. I am not a sanke Lover but from those pictures you have breed a good sanke Wombat are you Australian?

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    G'day all
    Rain, I am also interested in how this bunch will develop as they represent the begining of my Sanke line. There is a long way to go but I know what I want from these Sanke. We are almost at the end of our growing season here and this bad weather at the moment has already dropped the water temp a couple of degrees so I don't expect much change in them for a while. Any way I will keep the photo's coming as I appreciate other peoples opinions.
    Dalozt, thank's for your comments, and yes at the moment I am a very wet Aussi. If the rain stops today I might be trapped for only another three days.

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    [Did try to get out. NO LUCK!
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    G'day all.
    Rain has stopped but still stuck in Wombat land. Decided to do a final cull of my Kohaku. These will be kept with the Sanke and re assessed in spring when I will make the final decision on what to keep. Here are some photo's of my selection.
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    Where about in Australia do you live? I used to live in Darwin and Adelaide. I tried to keep Koi in Darwin but its funny as we are not allowed to keep Koi in Darwin 10 year ago, I dunno if the rules has changed or not. So we did smuggle Koi from Sydney LOL. Well I am an Indonesian so I did not understand much about the rules and regulation on Koi keeping there but I think it is pretty strict. As when I was on Adelaide I tried to find koi as well but there were none, only comets, goldfish and other small fish that were available.

    I heard from my guardian back there. The rules was made because they were scared that If people dump their Koi to river or any other ecosystem it will surely destroy the ecosystem because Koi is considered one of the ferocious predator when entered in the ecosystem so the other ecosystem will slowly fade away. Is is true Wombat?

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    Wow and what a great Kohaku.. Love the Kohau in the first pics a four step with a dot it will turn out to be great.. keep us posted mate.. cheers

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    Nice Fish... I like the last sanke In the second set of pix!! But of course Im still in the "eww pretty" phase of judging koi, so I dont know what to look for!!!

    EEEEWWW PRETTY!!!!

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    G'day all'
    dalozt Koi keeping is only legal in New South Wales and Western Australia. I live in N.S.W
    The issues with Koi are mostely associated with European carp which are now wide spread throught the river and fresh water catchment of eastern Australia. There is much politics associated with wild carp management that has the potential to impact on koi keeping in Australia. Where it will go who knows but for now I am enjoying the challange of trying to improve the quality of the koi at my place.
    Redman 8102 the second set pic's are progress photo's, they are about a month older.I am particularly interested in the development of there body conformation as there grand parents were quite solid fish.
    Cheers.

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    Well I am a learner in homebreeding too.. I love your koi.. Just wondering if you could post pics on your facility and your parents stocks for me to learn. I love this forum coz I get to read and see pics and vids that are very useful. And people here are very friendly as well. Wayne is one of the great breeder in this forum, just wondering if he got a blackberry so that I could ask him plenty of information

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    G'day all,
    dalozt, here are some photo's of grandparents and parents of these Sanke. The Grandparents are very old fish and are now in a safe mud pond to live out the rest of their days.( They are together in first photo) The photo of the three Sanke are the sons from this first cross and the farthers of the Sanke fingerlings posted here. The Aka Sanke is the mother ( and cousin to the farthers) of the fingerlings. I hope that makes sense. As you can see the ansestors of these Sanke are not show Koi but it is the genetic trates they carry that interests me in my attempt to create something special. A long way to go but I have plenty of time. Sorry about the photo quality but they are old pic's scanned from hard coppies.
    cheers.
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    Hi Wombat
    well those baby's look like a very good start ! and all you have to do is good selcetion of brood fish and keep doing as you are doing and you will see improvement as you go and remmember the more you inbreed the smaller the koi will get so inject some Magoi or Shiro kemi or white Magoi from or a large koi un related to keep the size at around F4 -F5 as you will see size reduce and better deeper colours !,Kohaku is a Ideal fish to add in so I think you have that stock so you should be ok for a while !.
    I have a HTC smart phone but my fingers are to big for that and Blackberry's so email me anytime dalozt Here on koiphen !lol or anybody who needs some breeding questions answered I know its slower but hey please use it !anytime.
    and when crossing kohaku with sanke better and deeper Hi patterns can be added ,also when looking at fingerlings look at the eye's if it is kohaku but has black in the eye and flecks around the eye its a sanke and sumi will come later at around three years old -to five years later ,Torzo like sanke's are known for this and its always good to look Kohaku koi in the eye's it can tell you a lot and help with breeding sanke .
    Also when breeding sanke heating for the first two months at 86f-32 c ! helps peel back sumi and reveals hi patterns fast so culling is easy and better fry are selected faster and so less money spent on growing on culls !.
    Also adding a Shiro bekko at F 7 with lighter Blue sumi and a brighter shiroji will help keep the line producing better quailty sanke and a good pattern .
    Last edited by wayne1; 03-06-2013 at 05:06 AM.

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    G'day Wayne1,
    Thank's for the tips sounds very practicle. I really want some big fish out of these Sanke so all future breeding will be with large well shaped Koi.I probably should have left it another year befor breeding these but the female was full of eggs and I got a bit hastey. I would like to put them into a dam to grow them quick but it would be a major risk with the number of fish eating birds around this place. For now they are doing OK in a 6000Lt pond.
    cheers

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