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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
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    Thread: Breeding Questions

    1. #21
      bgonzal is offline Junior Member
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      hi, anyone give me a sight to perfect my pairing :-) .
      1. i have leather skin white male koi and shiro utsuri female. will it end up to doitsu shiro utsuri?
      2. i have metallic doitsu midori female (scales only on dorsal) and hi shusui. will it gives me ki shusui?

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    2. #22
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      Hi Bgonzal
      well its all on scales and gene's of leather they may carry and are they two gene fish from a line ,but if you have Leather male nude (no head to dorsal scales ) he when crossed to a scaled female will produce striped doitsu linear line fish and scaled only but if he has other random sclaes and the female has large skin gaps inbertween scale head to dorsal may well produce random scaled and leather doitsu fish ,as its all on their linage as well as to whats in it down the line back to grand parent fish .
      so its important to know your lines as some times eggs wont hatch and some pairings may be low producers because it has leather nude koi in its line even if it looks fully scaled as most breeders will have both scaled and Doitsu blood to produce a full line to sell on to all custmers requirements ,dislikes and likes ! .
      So a more productive line .
      and certain gene's won't be all there in a line till F2 so having a fully inbred koi up to F2 is important to breed from as most types wont show up till then in spawns !,so a line is not complete till F3 ,also many breeders spawn bread and butter fish to sell on just for production so are not a line produced fish and are of no real value and are sold on as pond fillers cheap.
      So the only way is buy the best stock you can from a breeder who specializes in one type which he is renound for and you should get good results or make your own line .
      and start from scratch and this is the best way as you know what's in it and only you have the recipe and its all down to experimentation and time !.

      And yes A Hi Shusui to Female will give you a back cross spawn like my thread in 2011 ,if you have a green midori goi you will have a good spawn also if you have a striped one you will get Asagi and Ki asagi ,and midori goi ,and scaled midori goi .
      Its important to use a scaled fish in your line as it will keep it safe and more productive ,as leather to leather spawns will be 25-33% lower as the leathal gene will kill them off before hatching .
      but mosy doitsu fish will have head to dorasl scales and some small lateral line scales so depending on this you may have a good hatch and may see some Asagi but not as many as if you used a striped parent fish ,if you did you may see 25% of all types .
      also you will see in fry yellow to orange at three weeks and these will develop slowly as the ogon gene will slow this process down and colours may not finish actually forming till sansai -3 years old .
      and you will see some green fish turn into ki shusui later ,as a midori goi egg fish is used .
      If you use a male midori goi and a female hi shusui ,you will see a better colour and a faster result and brighter colours .
      My Back cross was done with the female striped midori goi in pic 3 and pic 4 - a Misu sky blue shusui male on the 1st of may 2011 .
      also I did a male midori goi cross to female shusu the top pic 1 is the result and the other way round was last pic 5 which gives a more white ki shusui and no1 has more blue in and deeper colours ,both were hosakai shusui and marusaka midori goi ,so i have two lines to work with I also use Akemi ki goi to improve my lines later at F3 if needed .
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      Last edited by wayne1; 05-24-2013 at 06:53 AM.

    3. #23
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      Have you any pic's as this will help me help you as to what i can tell you more as a close up of the whole fish sides as well can tell you a lot ,also i have seen metallic midori goi once ,this sounds intresting ,have you got pic's would help !

    4. #24
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      Wayne I notice you have plenty of the doitsu ochiba that carries shusui gene and having shusui pattern do you have pics of them and are they bigger now?

    5. #25
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      Hi Davo
      No sorry as they all got eaten by otters and mink in 2009! so a complete wipe out but I did sell on 500 of these in a koi show Auction west wales Bkks in 2008 Wales so some were out there are some nice ones in Wales !lol !Otters and Mink are a big problem also Herons so these things happen !.
      I will try and breed some next year as I was fond of this type of color and the fact it was brown within the dorsal scales and the metallic gunmetal blue ,this was bred from a Kase Kogane ochibas and a Hosakai Hi shusui which also got sold on as I just had to many fish at the time lol !
      as you can see in the pic it also produced scaled fish from this scaled ochibas and leather shusui ,but no striped were produced at all only leather as the ochibas scaled fish had doitsu in its line !.
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    6. #26
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      Sorry for your lost Wayne.. Too bad, those looks very badass LoL.. Well try again and wanna see the progress.. I probably might have a go with it as well. I have a friend who is making a yellow ochiba. They looks very nice.. Some have asagi pattern.. Looks very awesome..

    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by dalozt View Post
      Sorry for your lost Wayne.. Too bad, those looks very badass LoL.. Well try again and wanna see the progress.. I probably might have a go with it as well. I have a friend who is making a yellow ochiba. They looks very nice.. Some have asagi pattern.. Looks very awesome..
      These things happen and you have to move on and to the next project !lol well yes I thought of using my KI SHUSUI female for this and crossing with a ochibas male to recreate this but in a light yellow to what would result !I can only guess !but I may try this next year just to see what will result !.
      and yes these were one in a million baby's so might try again to get this metallic Gun metal color as it looks amazing in the flesh ,I got them up to 12 inch fish in a year and this color looked great on bigger fish ,so I will try again if I find the right shusui female with good skin luster almost metallic to it !lol another project lol !.

    8. #28
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      Random question, what would happen if you mixed doitsu ochiba to doitsu hariwake (yellow). I have both, but I'm not sure the sex of the hariwake as she/he is very young yet.

    9. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by lifeoffaith View Post
      Random question, what would happen if you mixed doitsu ochiba to doitsu hariwake (yellow). I have both, but I'm not sure the sex of the hariwake as she/he is very young yet.
      You probabl will get doits Ochibake LOL

    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by dalozt View Post
      You probabl will get doits Ochibake LOL
      Very funny! Is that kind of like Kihaku?

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    11. #31
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      Yes sort of Kihaku LOL.. My real thought of what you thinking is probably you will get some doitsu ochiba, doitsu hariwake, some metallic lemony doitsu ochiba will be interesting to see the project if you make one. One of my friend is on his project of Sochikubai or metallic goromo.. It will be interesting breed.. No this time i dont come up with the names LOL

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