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    Thread: Does anyone use peat moss to liwer PH?

    1. #1
      Loco4Koi's Avatar
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      Does anyone use peat moss to liwer PH?

      My ph seems to be steadily creeping up despite regular water changes. I'm at 8.5 now. I've heard of bagging peat moss and placing it in a Skimmer to lower and regulate ph. My area has limestone bedrock so high ph is normal here.
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    2. #2
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      I have never done this, but have read of Koi keepers in Japan who add peat to their water stream to lower Ph. I don't know how much it will regulate or lower your pH. As the peat decays it will add organics to your water, so I would guess up stream of a mechanical filter would be best placement.

      A pH of 8.5 isn't all that bad. If you dose with enough baking soda you can lower your pH to 8.3 as that is the native pH of the baking soda. The BS approach will help buffer your water, won't add organics, and is relatively cheap enough to make it practical.

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    3. #3
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      What's your kh? Its the buffer. And what is your source water ph?
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

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    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      What's your kh? Its the buffer. And what is your source water ph?
      My kh is @ 140
      I forget my tap water ph... 8.0 or so
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    5. #5
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      From Dr. Roddy:

      There are two causes of the high pH with these measured values.

      The KH is too low as others said, and needs baking soda addition to stabilize pH at a better value.

      But the GH is way too low for acceptable pH control. GH is a measure of dissolved calcium and magnesium. When there is enough dissolved calcium and magnesium, AND when the KH is in an acceptable range (meaning between 80 and 300 ppm), if the pH drifts above 8.5, the calcium and magnesium will precipitate the carbonate ions that are causing the high pH and drop the pH value.

      So if you want the pH to stay below the 9 value you have measured:

      1. Get the KH into the 80 to 300 ppm range by adding two pounds of baking soda per 1000 gallons of pond water.
      2. Get the GH in the 100 to 250 ppm range by adding one pound of calcium chloride flake (which is calcium chloride dihydrate, with 77% calcium chloride content, 23% water) per 1000 gallons of water. You may want to also add a pound of Epsom salt (magnesium sulfuate heptahydrate) per 1000 gallons of pond water for sufficient dissolved magnesium also.

      Taking those two actions should stablize pH at a value of 8.3, which is ideal for 99% of ponders.
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

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    6. #6
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      Why lower Ph? Your water sounds great. Adding baking soda might be good as Brad said.
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      It's not uncommon to see a increase in pH between tap (generally not aerated) and your pond (aerated). You can always run a bucket test and confirm that is the case.

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    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      From Dr. Roddy:

      There are two causes of the high pH with these measured values.

      The KH is too low as others said, and needs baking soda addition to stabilize pH at a better value.

      But the GH is way too low for acceptable pH control. GH is a measure of dissolved calcium and magnesium. When there is enough dissolved calcium and magnesium, AND when the KH is in an acceptable range (meaning between 80 and 300 ppm), if the pH drifts above 8.5, the calcium and magnesium will precipitate the carbonate ions that are causing the high pH and drop the pH value.

      So if you want the pH to stay below the 9 value you have measured:

      1. Get the KH into the 80 to 300 ppm range by adding two pounds of baking soda per 1000 gallons of pond water.
      2. Get the GH in the 100 to 250 ppm range by adding one pound of calcium chloride flake (which is calcium chloride dihydrate, with 77% calcium chloride content, 23% water) per 1000 gallons of water. You may want to also add a pound of Epsom salt (magnesium sulfuate heptahydrate) per 1000 gallons of pond water for sufficient dissolved magnesium also.

      Taking those two actions should stablize pH at a value of 8.3, which is ideal for 99% of ponders.
      My gh is roughly 120 or so... I just ordered calcium chloride and will get some Epsom salt on way home ... however, I've read that soft water produces better koi .... any thoughts on that?
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      When my water was really green the PH shot up. I just do regular water changes and live with what ever Ph from city water.
      Last edited by vipertom1970; 07-10-2012 at 12:40 PM.

    10. #10
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      You're stressing about NOTHING! Your Ph isn't out of the ordinary and as has been stated, you will see a slight difference between the tap Ph and the pond Ph. My pond Ph has always been right between 8.1-8.3 and I don't do anything to it. The fish will get accustomed to it. Stop reading all the BS on the internet and like I've mentioned before, let your fish tell you when they're happy or not.

      Mike
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    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      You're stressing about NOTHING! Your Ph isn't out of the ordinary and as has been stated, you will see a slight difference between the tap Ph and the pond Ph. My pond Ph has always been right between 8.1-8.3 and I don't do anything to it. The fish will get accustomed to it. Stop reading all the BS on the internet and like I've mentioned before, let your fish tell you when they're happy or not.

      Mike
      Well, you know me... ill ask a million questions... I'm a bit of a perfectionist,,, I'm sure you can relate
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    12. #12
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      I agree with Koiman, stop stressing. There are ideal ranges for everyone and your pond will tell you. I have the same high Ph here in Austin and have thought about changing it, but the down side is adding all the "Other" elements every time you do a water change. Our water is very high in Ph and I think you would do more injustice to make a big swing than to leave it alone.

    13. #13
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      Regarding soft water, it comes at a price. You risk not having enough GH to keep pH stable like Cindy mentioned plus GH has a lot of trace minerals they benefit from overall.
      The goal is stable water and if you're not getting pH swings then all is good. Btw, peat will discolor the water and add a lot of organics which was also mentioned.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    14. #14
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      Wouldn't peat moss add tannins to the water and stain the water a darker color?
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    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by McKTX View Post
      Wouldn't peat moss add tannins to the water and stain the water a darker color?
      Yes it's used all the time in the discus end pof the hobby to get the tannins and low pH.

      Joe don't start chasing water numbers as water chemistry will drive you nuts and bug the crap out of your fish.
      the simplest explanation is usually the correct one......... Occams razor....

    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      You're stressing about NOTHING! Your Ph isn't out of the ordinary and as has been stated, you will see a slight difference between the tap Ph and the pond Ph. My pond Ph has always been right between 8.1-8.3 and I don't do anything to it. The fish will get accustomed to it. Stop reading all the BS on the internet and like I've mentioned before, let your fish tell you when they're happy or not.

      Mike
      But if it continues to be unstable and keeps creeping up.
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


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    17. #17
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      His GH at about 120 and KH at about 140 are good. His pH will stabilize. I would not add the calcium chloride or the epsom salts as he already had sufficient GH. The natural water appears to be such that he doesn't need to even consider the GH, at least very often. I am one that considers the KH as the most critical water parameter, since it will change with time and with that change will potentially come a pH crash, but if maintained, the filters stay happy, the pH stays constant, and those make the fish happy.

      Green water will drive the pH to have large swings, as the concentration of oxygen and carbon dioxide are affected by photosynthesis from morning to evening.

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    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      His GH at about 120 and KH at about 140 are good. His pH will stabilize. I would not add the calcium chloride or the epsom salts as he already had sufficient GH. The natural water appears to be such that he doesn't need to even consider the GH, at least very often. I am one that considers the KH as the most critical water paranmeter, since it will change with time and with that change will potentially come a pH crash, but if maintained, the filters stay happy, the pH stays constant, and those make the fish happy.

      Green water will drive the pH to have large swings, as the concentration of oxygen and carbon dioxide are affected by photosynthesis from morning to evening.
      My water is exceptionally clear. Slight greenish tinge, but I can see every little pebble on the bottom of the deep end of the pond...yes there are still some pebbles down there...lol
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    19. #19
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      If it was clear then it wouldn't have greenish tinge to it....how about its transparent green... Turn up the UV and get it clear
      the simplest explanation is usually the correct one......... Occams razor....

    20. #20
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      When I had my PH crash (12 years ago) I had green water for many weeks. Then it started to clear up and the next day I had almost crystal clear water. I thought this was good until I saw the fish stressed out. The PH was in the low 6's. I never used baking soda and didn't even know about KH or GH.
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