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    Thread: Bog Filter

    1. #21
      Pond James_Pond's Avatar
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      OMG! I never thought of that! I've had a handy emergency QT sitting there the entire time! It's only a 100 gallons or so, but could easily house a sick fish for a week or so. I've got one I've been wanting to do some bump removal on and salt him heavily for a couple days. I could clean out the bog and set him in his own little salt water bath.

      steve

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    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pond,James_Pond View Post
      OMG! I never thought of that! I've had a handy emergency QT sitting there the entire time! It's only a 100 gallons or so, but could easily house a sick fish for a week or so. I've got one I've been wanting to do some bump removal on and salt him heavily for a couple days. I could clean out the bog and set him in his own little salt water bath.

      steve
      There you go! Once treatment/QT is over, acclimation to the new digs is a cinch, just open the valve and let a tiny bit of pond water start coming in a bit at a time.

      I'm big on things serving multiple purposes. That's why my bog is also growing water chestnuts and watercress.

      Stacy
      Last edited by Shadow99; 06-27-2012 at 04:45 PM.

    3. #23
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      This has been a great thread. A lot of good information. My bog is definitely a permanent feature. Its built out of about three tons of mortared stone. I don't plan on dismantling it in this Lifetime .
      I sort if used it for a trash can of sorts. Besides the required pea gravel, I also threw in some left over Bio blocks, a couple bags of barley hay, a few pounds of activated carbon, left over crushed granite from the stone deck, and bits and pieces of filter mats.
      I really was under the impression, when I first built it, that it never needed cleaning. I am definitely second guessing that now. It is not my only filtration and the water that does feed it first goes through several layer of filter mats and some Bio beads prior to the bog. I'll definitely keep an eye on things and look forward to more discussions about bog filters.
      Last edited by Loco4Koi; 06-28-2012 at 12:55 PM.
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    4. #24
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      For the most part the negatives have been theorized and based off of educational guesses. Does anyone have any direct experiences with bog filters actually killing fish if built properly?
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    5. #25
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      bog *(bôg, bg)
      n.
      1.
      a. An area having a wet, spongy, acidic substrate composed chiefly of sphagnum moss and peat in which characteristic shrubs and herbs and sometimes trees usually grow.
      b. Any of certain other wetland areas, such as a fen, having a peat substrate. Also called peat bog.
      2. An area of soft, naturally waterlogged ground.


      You don't have a bog, you have an upflow filter with pea gravel as your media and no provisions for cleaning it.
      So it isn't built "properly".
      IMO.
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    6. #26
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      My Up-flow-bog-veggie filter has a blowout port that I hook my spa blower to for cleaning purposes. The issue I have is that all the muck will go back into the pond if I am not careful. This is much the same as my S&G filter, but I don't have a waste port (Major over site). If I thought about it more, I would have added a drain when building. I have to use it about 3 times a year but after cleaning it runs like a champ. No dead fish from that process yet. I make sure to continually remove plant matter so the plants have to regenerate and use up more fish waste.

    7. #27
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      Bog or wetland filters designed the old way of slotted pipe are not efficient. All bogs/wetland filters will clog & channel but surrounding drilled or slotted PVC pipe w/rock is not the method to build a bog/wetland filter (IMHO). -- so 1980s!

      1st off, 8" or less of rock in the bog ... anything much greater will decrease efficiency and increase future maintenance.

      Open void underneath 100% of the footprint. Water enters & has free flow beneath the layer of rock as it perculates upwards (upflow) thru.

      Name:  Wetlands Filtration 09.07.11.jpg
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      This free flow is achieved by using structural grids or blocks (shown w/EcoBlox or Matrix Blocks):

      Name:  Wetlands Skeletal Structure 1.jpg
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      Name:  Wetlands Skeletal Structure 2.jpg
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      Wetland filters benefit more from surface area & foot-print over depth. The 8" of gravel is acting as a substrate for the growth of beneficial bacteria but also as a substrate for the root growth of aquatic vegetation.

      Name:  Wetlands Skeletal Structure 3.jpg
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      In most all occaision, this is still being fed AFTER mechanical pre-filtration (i.e. after passing through a 300 micron sieve).

      What's often not always acknowledged is some people simply pump water direct from a skimmer or from the bottom of a pond direct to a bog/wetland. The amount of physical debris & sludge varies based on the source water of the wetland & the quality of the pre-filtration that occurs prior to this stage.

      With 8" of river rock, future backflushing/power-washing is still a chore but certainly feasible. Any accumulation goes down the voided area & the clean-out section can accomodate for a pump to pump the waste matter out. Or in other instances, a bottom drain can be incorporated to drain the system out to "day-light".

      The % of accumulation is again dependent on the source of the water fed from a sieve? fed from a submersible pump in the skimmer? fed from the bottom of the pond? -- it's all going to vary!

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by WAC View Post
      In most all occaision, this is still being fed AFTER mechanical pre-filtration (i.e. after passing through a 300 micron sieve).

      What's often not always acknowledged is some people simply pump water direct from a skimmer or from the bottom of a pond direct to a bog/wetland. The amount of physical debris & sludge varies based on the source water of the wetland & the quality of the pre-filtration that occurs prior to this stage.

      With 8" of river rock, future backflushing/power-washing is still a chore but certainly feasible. Any accumulation goes down the voided area & the clean-out section can accomodate for a pump to pump the waste matter out. Or in other instances, a bottom drain can be incorporated to drain the system out to "day-light".

      The % of accumulation is again dependent on the source of the water fed from a sieve? fed from a submersible pump in the skimmer? fed from the bottom of the pond? -- it's all going to vary!
      Excellent post.
      Mine is fed directly from the skimmer, since I have no sieve I tried to make up for it by having the water upflow through the no see'um screen before hitting the gravel. Backflush via 3" drain. It makes a huge sucking sound when I do it. LOL



      Stacy

    9. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by GoldieGirl View Post
      bog *(bôg, bg)
      n.
      1.
      a. An area having a wet, spongy, acidic substrate composed chiefly of sphagnum moss and peat in which characteristic shrubs and herbs and sometimes trees usually grow.
      b. Any of certain other wetland areas, such as a fen, having a peat substrate. Also called peat bog.
      2. An area of soft, naturally waterlogged ground.


      You don't have a bog, you have an upflow filter with pea gravel as your media and no provisions for cleaning it.
      So it isn't built "properly".
      IMO.
      Your talking semantics here,,,, I believe most people realize the difference between a "bog" and a "bog filter" .... but I may be wrong
      Oppurtunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work!"
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    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by Loco4Koi View Post
      Your talking semantics here,,,, I believe most people realize the difference between a "bog" and a "bog filter" .... but I may be wrong
      Than whats the difference between your filter and and upflow filter with static media and plants growing out the top?
      ________________________________________
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    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by Loco4Koi View Post
      Your talking semantics here,,,, I believe most people realize the difference between a "bog" and a "bog filter" .... but I may be wrong
      Maybe not as much as you might think! Just replace the "peat" with anaerobic muck filled with Hydrogen Sulfide and Methane gas! But, you seem convinced to MAKE/FORCE this to work. So, good luck. Give us a report in about a year about how you broke your back cleaning out your "bog filter"!lol. I've lost count on how many of these "cesspools" we've mucked out over the years. When the clients see/smell what's been under the gravel, they nearly lose their lunch from the smell!!!

      Mike
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    12. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Loco4Koi View Post
      Your talking semantics here,,,, I believe most people realize the difference between a "bog" and a "bog filter" .... but I may be wrong
      Maybe not as much as you might think! Just replace the "peat" with anaerobic muck filled with Hydrogen Sulfide and Methane gas! But, you seem convinced to MAKE/FORCE this to work. So, good luck. Give us a report in about a year about how you broke your back cleaning out your "bog filter"!lol. I've lost count on how many of these "cesspools" we've mucked out over the years. When the clients see/smell what's been under the gravel, they nearly lose their lunch from the smell!!!

      Mike
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      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    13. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      Maybe not as much as you might think! Just replace the "peat" with anaerobic muck filled with Hydrogen Sulfide and Methane gas! But, you seem convinced to MAKE/FORCE this to work. So, good luck. Give us a report in about a year about how you broke your back cleaning out your "bog filter"!lol. I've lost count on how many of these "cesspools" we've mucked out over the years. When the clients see/smell what's been under the gravel, they nearly lose their lunch from the smell!!!

      Mike
      LMAO.... its not that I'm forcing it to work.... I have a bog filter made out of three tons of mortared stone..... not only that I've already rebuilt it once when the liner had a leak..... I am considering what I will eventually have to do .... I was advised by a local "professional" pond builder that these things never need cleaning .... I'm new to this and had no reason to not believe him..... it is what it is at this point..... I am taking everyone's ideas and considering what my next move will be... at the very least, I'm not doing anything about it until it cools off,, it was 106° yesterday,,,, I'm also really appreciative of people's ideas etc....... and as far as back breaking work is concerned,, that's never scared me.... I built a pond made of twelve tons of limestone blocks mostly by myself.... shoveling out a few yards of pea gravel and hosing it off once a year really doesn't sound that distressing to me... doing that in exchange for Chrystal clear water is a fair trade in my book..... I'm also going to add additional s&g filters as well as some Bio ribbon filters real soon.... time and money is all I lack.. a strong back, endless energy and the desire to get things done is not lacking whatsoever ....
      Last edited by Loco4Koi; 06-29-2012 at 12:08 AM.
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    14. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by GoldieGirl View Post
      Than whats the difference between your filter and and upflow filter with static media and plants growing out the top?
      Nothing... just semantics
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    15. #35
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      Here are some pics if the bog... ill take some better, bog specific, pics tomorrow ..... if you were me, how would you remedy the situation?
      I have about 2.5' of pea gravel amongst other "media" in it.... its completely mortared. The 2" pipes going under the gravel do have cleanout access... I can run some air tube down the and blow them out,,, I can run a snake in them to clean them etc etc.... but there really isn't a way to Retro a BD without dismantling the mortared stone,,, definitely not going to happen... I'm inclined to maintain it as is and clean it out every winter when it gets cool anyhow .... but I am open to suggestions
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      Do yo have a UV ? water looks green.

    17. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by vipertom1970 View Post
      Do yo have a UV ? water looks green.
      I have one 57w in my savio.... its not that bad in person.... if you're speaking of the water in the above pics, those older pics. I bought some flocculant and didn't notice it had a blue dye in it until I had poured half the bottle in the pond.. I've done some water changes since and the blue thinned out. I kicked myself hard for not noticing the label said it was a blue dye also..hate that blue stuff.. my water does have a greenish tint to it,,, but it's really not that bad
      Last edited by Loco4Koi; 06-29-2012 at 04:36 AM.
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    18. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by Loco4Koi View Post
      Here are some pics if the bog... ill take some better, bog specific, pics tomorrow ..... if you were me, how would you remedy the situation?
      I have about 2.5' of pea gravel amongst other "media" in it.... its completely mortared. The 2" pipes going under the gravel do have cleanout access... I can run some air tube down the and blow them out,,, I can run a snake in them to clean them etc etc.... but there really isn't a way to Retro a BD without dismantling the mortared stone,,, definitely not going to happen... I'm inclined to maintain it as is and clean it out every winter when it gets cool anyhow .... but I am open to suggestions
      Love it! Looks really nice.

      Rather that do a BD, is there a way you can raise the gravel up off the bottom about six inches and then just do a 3" knife valve out the backside so you can backflush it out?

    19. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by Shadow99 View Post
      Love it! Looks really nice.

      Rather that do a BD, is there a way you can raise the gravel up off the bottom about six inches and then just do a 3" knife valve out the backside so you can backflush it out?
      It would have to go up and over the back wall,, but it might work.... I also thought about just filling it with bioballs topped with matting then top the mats with rocks for aesthetics. It would still need cleaning, but would be a lot easier.
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      I have an anaerobic bog experiment on my pond. Maybe I'm setup for failure but I like to try different things and the theory sounds good to me. I see anaerobic conditions naturally occurring near rivers and lakes. I've used it to help greatly in marine aquariums, so why not in freshwater too? I only clean the surface of the gravel/soil. I don't have a pipe under the soil. I don't plan on disturbing it, but if I do I will isolate it from the pond.
      No gunk is getting trapped in it, only if it settles down on the top and travels down.
      Nothing harmful should be released because I won't disturb it.
      What else should I worry about?

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