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  • Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567
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    Thread: Bog Filter

    1. #121
      MikeM is offline Super Member
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      If you are wanting a bog garden, why not just do one and not connect it to the koi pond? It is much more common for 'bog filters' to become a source of disease and a cause of water degradation than a benefit to the fish.

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    2. #122
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      There are ways to incorporate plants without all the mess that turns a bog stagnant and anaerobic in koi ponds. You could always do a sand gravel filter before your bog filter so that only clean water enters the bog... Also instead of deep rooting plants you can do free floating plants.

      Also think about making the bog filter so that it can be completely bypassed without interrupting biological filtration... That way you can clean and maintain it without releasing toxins into the sytems, and if you ever have to treat the pond with medications that will kill plants you can isolate the bog and save the plants.
      Last edited by Redman8102; 04-30-2014 at 11:42 AM.

    3. #123
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      Look up Anoxic Filtration http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/anoxic_filtration.html . It is a good way of having the benefit of plants in a system that can be cleaned and maintained regularly. One thing to note is that the Anoxic system requires a pre-filter on the pump.

      Over the years I have seen more problems with disease and parasites in bubble boy ponds so don't be scared away with the plant concept. Any pond system that is not maintained can become a problem. Regular attention and maintenance are the keys to success.
      Last edited by BWG; 04-30-2014 at 09:31 AM.

    4. #124
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      I think another concern is that plants tend to be a good place for parasites to hide and multiply... And treating them with normal parasite treatments is rather difficult to achieve good results without killing the plants all together.

      That's why I suggested the ability to bypass the "veggie" filter and still have some form of main biological filtration so that mess can be given their due course in the event that the entire pond need treated.

      This also allows for the plants to be removed and dipped in a plant safe parasite treatment. I've read before that some people do dips of sorts to treat/QT new plants...

      I would love to see pics of your experiment when you get the chance to post!

    5. #125
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      My veggie filter has water coming in via the bottom. There is about a six inch space of water, then a fine no-see-um screen over a sturdy grate. The screen is topped with about 6 inches of pea gravel which is planted. The filter has a 3" bottom drain that I can power flush with a knife valve. Water comes up through the gravel then spills over the falls.

      My veggie filter is located directed under the tree line of a sugar maple and red oak and right next to a magnolia. Lots and lots of tree debris fall in and are carried out over the falls into the pond to be caught by the skimmer. If anything might be a muck magnet, this could be it.--but its not.

      The last two years I have done zero maintenance on it other than power flushing it for about 30 seconds maybe twice a month and picking out any sticks that fall in.

      This spring I took the entire thing apart to check for muck. The bottom of the liner had a fine coat of silt that was less than 1/8th thick and could have been reflecting winter melt residue. In otherwords, no measurable muck in the bottom of my filter after two years. Before spring start up, I rinse the gravel and then dumped a gallon of bleach in the gravel and let it sit to kill anything that might have lived in it all winter ( doubtful that happened but it took two minutes to do). The gravel wasn't particularly dirty to start with, but I had the bleach so why not?

      The only filtration that occurs before water hits my veggie filter is the green matala pad in the skimmer which I have covered with double thickness tulle to catch finer particles. Its my cheap sieve. The fish load in my pond is low. 4 fish.
      The only filtration I have on my pond is the veggie filter and a waterfall box which is filled with matala pads.

      I see veggie filters slammed a lot in various places. I agree that some designs are not so great in the low maintenance department. However, Bottom line for me, Veggie filters do not need to be muck and disease gathering places. Its all in the design and how much load you put on it.

      I sprout my watercress from organic seeds. Aesthetic plants get all soil removed and are rinsed well before getting planted. Its biofiltration that looks nice and I don't have to do any daily/weekly maintenance around. Its my kind of set up!

      Stacy
      Last edited by Shadow99; 05-01-2014 at 07:47 AM.

    6. #126
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      Looks like a good system that is working for you and at the same time easily maintainable.

    7. #127
      Paultergeist is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Shadow99 View Post
      My veggie filter has water coming in via the bottom. There is about a six inch space of water, then a fine no-see-um screen over a sturdy grate. The screen is topped with about 6 inches of pea gravel which is planted. The filter has a 3" bottom drain that I can power flush with a knife valve. Water comes up through the gravel then spills over the falls.
      Sounds very cool, Stacy. That which you describe -- with the water space below the gravel -- sounds rather similar in design to a concept called a "refugium" in the saltwater aquarium community. Like veggie filters in Koi ponds, refugiums have also been the subject of considerable debate and controversy.

      The bottom drain in the filter chamber itself was an excellent idea.

      It would be great if you could share some photos of your set up....?

      Paul

    8. #128
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      Quote Originally Posted by Shadow99 View Post
      My veggie filter has water coming in via the bottom. There is about a six inch space of water, then a fine no-see-um screen over a sturdy grate. The screen is topped with about 6 inches of pea gravel which is planted. The filter has a 3" bottom drain that I can power flush with a knife valve. Water comes up through the gravel then spills over the falls.
      Well that does sound pretty good in your case… Would love to see some pics!

      My only issue with this, and please don't take this as trying to stir the preverbal pot… Is the "fine no-see-um screen" before the pea gravel… to me it seems you have created a spot for failure. Sure with 4 fish its probably not an issue… and it doesn't sound like you are pulling water from the bottom, just from the skimmer. But in a pond where bottom water and fish waste is being pulled into the veggie filter with your design the screen will eventually get clogged and it seems as if in order to remove it you must first dig through plants and pea gravel…. in order for the fines to be filtered efficiently you would have to do it reverse; pea gravel on bottom after your 6 inch space and screen on top… that way the screen could be removed and cleaned with little to no hassle. Maybe even do away with the screen all together and do a sand gravel filter with plants on top.

      Again in your situation your setup is presumably ok… in a normally stocked koi pond it may not be so "low maintenance" anyways just my opinion…

    9. #129
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      Quote Originally Posted by Redman8102 View Post
      Well that does sound pretty good in your case… Would love to see some pics!

      My only issue with this, and please don't take this as trying to stir the preverbal pot… Is the "fine no-see-um screen" before the pea gravel… to me it seems you have created a spot for failure. Sure with 4 fish its probably not an issue… and it doesn't sound like you are pulling water from the bottom, just from the skimmer. But in a pond where bottom water and fish waste is being pulled into the veggie filter with your design the screen will eventually get clogged and it seems as if in order to remove it you must first dig through plants and pea gravel…. in order for the fines to be filtered efficiently you would have to do it reverse; pea gravel on bottom after your 6 inch space and screen on top… that way the screen could be removed and cleaned with little to no hassle. Maybe even do away with the screen all together and do a sand gravel filter with plants on top.

      Again in your situation your setup is presumably ok… in a normally stocked koi pond it may not be so "low maintenance" anyways just my opinion…
      You know when I had it apart this spring, I had every intention of taking pictures to show how little waste there was but I had been outside all day doing different things and was getting cold so I blew it off completely. I'm not sure how useful pictures of the end product will be but I'll get out there today and take some today. :P

      Yep I hear what you are saying on the no see um screen. I didn't put it in permanently because of a similar line of thinking when I was trying to conceptualize this whole thing. There were different mesh sizes to choose from. Honestly I chose the no see-um size because it wasn't metal and because I was pining for a real seive (that I could bury but that doesn't exist!) LOL

      I think it is working for a few reasons. Low fish count helps for sure, plus I don't feed for maximum growth, they get a handful twice a day and whatever bugs fall off the trees into the pond on top of that. I don't care if I don't have massive fish. I prefer low maintenance fish, heh.

      The screen probably isn't clogging because the layers of tulle over the skimmer filter is catching a lot of the fine stuff so it isn't making it to the bog, most of the fish poop sinks before it gets to my bog, and most importantly, having the 3" bottom drain with a knife valve in the bog is providing a pretty powerful backflush.

      The other way that this set up is really coming in handy is during the massive downpours. While I do have an overflow on the pond, I've had some concerns that it wouldn't work fast enough in these 4" downpours that are happening so often. Because one of my fish is small I don't want to flush out excess water my via the pond bottom drain if I can't see (like during a downpour) but I can empty all the water of of the bog in seconds with the valve on that and not have to worry about losing any fish down the drain.

      its not a set up for everyone definitely, but its working pretty good for what I need.

      Stacy

    10. #130
      DragonFireSG is offline Senior Member
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      I'll be incorporating a bog of sorts into my new pond build.

      Plan is to have 3-4 inches of open water at the base, with a plastic slotted screen holding up a mix of coarse (1-2in chunks) of mixed granite and dolomite for planting a few large plants (taro and monstera deliciosa)
      The gravel area will be at most 9 inches thick. This will be an upflow system, with water overflowing into a pipe that leads to a mid water return.

      Flow will be relatively slow, at maybe 500gph tops. The feed water is from a RDF, and as such will be clean down to 50 microns or so.

      Is there anything in particular I should take note of? The plan is for there to be flush valves on both the top and the bottom for when maintenance is needed. A branch off the pond's aeration system will be used for maintenance purging.

      I am wondering if I should consider just lightly aerating the gravel bed 24/7 to prevent anything from settling out. Do you think there will be any impact on water quality and/or clarity if I do so? My goal is for the plants to handle the nitrates. I'd rather not have anything going anaerobic in the system.

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    11. #131
      inazuma28 is offline Senior Member
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      If the goal is to grow plants to take-up fish waste without creating an anaerobic mess, then having aeration would be better than not. This may not be what you want to do but, you can use almost anything for plant roots to hold on to.... granite and dolomite are not providing anything but something for the roots to hold on to. You could plant into sheets of the black matala (very large holes)- it would be easily removable, would not get clogged up, and would provide tons of room for the plant roots to do their thing. It would also be much easier to remove and handle in the case of cleaning, emergencies, ect.

    12. #132
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      Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28 View Post
      If the goal is to grow plants to take-up fish waste without creating an anaerobic mess, then having aeration would be better than not. This may not be what you want to do but, you can use almost anything for plant roots to hold on to.... granite and dolomite are not providing anything but something for the roots to hold on to. You could plant into sheets of the black matala (very large holes)- it would be easily removable, would not get clogged up, and would provide tons of room for the plant roots to do their thing. It would also be much easier to remove and handle in the case of cleaning, emergencies, ect.
      I put 2-3 layers of black matala in the black plastic baskets (for pond plants), cut out a little circle in the top layer and set the plant in it. Then I add just a handful of rocks to hold plant in place until it takes root. The plant baskets are then put in foam floating islands in the pond and on top of my filter barrels.

      Using matala the baskets are so easy to clean. I just pick up the basket (w/ no rocks they are super light) and swish it around in a clean bucket of pond water. Muck free in less than a few seconds per basket.
      Happiness is adopting a mutt and my pond is FULL of Happiness....
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    13. #133
      DragonFireSG is offline Senior Member
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      Sounds like a good plan. Thanks so much for sharing!

    14. #134
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      Hi.
      Why dont you filter the water first and than send it clean to the bog filter? In Europe, exist a lot of diferent forms of bog filters, the ones that use it as mechanical filter too use some chambers with perfurated pipe so you can clean the heavy sediments from time to time. Something like this: http://www.distripond.com/fr/produit...in-connector-1

      Some dont use bog filter as mechanical filter, instead the water from BD and Skimmers is pre filter with a 200microns sieve and beadfilter than send it below bog filter. I want to explain better my english is very limited. I think bog filters are great but only if you dont let solids acumulated under gravel.
      Last edited by possant; 08-20-2017 at 09:34 AM.

    15. #135
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      Quote Originally Posted by WAC View Post
      Bog or wetland filters designed the old way of slotted pipe are not efficient. All bogs/wetland filters will clog & channel but surrounding drilled or slotted PVC pipe w/rock is not the method to build a bog/wetland filter (IMHO). -- so 1980s!

      1st off, 8" or less of rock in the bog ... anything much greater will decrease efficiency and increase future maintenance.

      Open void underneath 100% of the footprint. Water enters & has free flow beneath the layer of rock as it perculates upwards (upflow) thru.

      Attachment 444527

      This free flow is achieved by using structural grids or blocks (shown w/EcoBlox or Matrix Blocks):

      Attachment 444530

      Attachment 444531

      Wetland filters benefit more from surface area & foot-print over depth. The 8" of gravel is acting as a substrate for the growth of beneficial bacteria but also as a substrate for the root growth of aquatic vegetation.

      Attachment 444532

      In most all occaision, this is still being fed AFTER mechanical pre-filtration (i.e. after passing through a 300 micron sieve).

      What's often not always acknowledged is some people simply pump water direct from a skimmer or from the bottom of a pond direct to a bog/wetland. The amount of physical debris & sludge varies based on the source water of the wetland & the quality of the pre-filtration that occurs prior to this stage.

      With 8" of river rock, future backflushing/power-washing is still a chore but certainly feasible. Any accumulation goes down the voided area & the clean-out section can accomodate for a pump to pump the waste matter out. Or in other instances, a bottom drain can be incorporated to drain the system out to "day-light".

      The % of accumulation is again dependent on the source of the water fed from a sieve? fed from a submersible pump in the skimmer? fed from the bottom of the pond? -- it's all going to vary!
      Didnt saw this post early. This is the best way to do a bog filter.

    16. #136
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      Hi
      I have recently built a bog filter.
      It's a 12' x32" lined plywood box 6" deep lined with a liner.
      The inflow comes over the top of the box via a 20000lph pump. There is 250 kg of gravel in it.
      I sits on the wide edge of the raised 20000l pond.
      I hope it will replace the pressure filter and bakki filter.
      I will be putting in plants soon.
      Cheers James

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