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    Thread: Police lay charges after toddler drowns in backyard pond

    1. #41
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      [QUOTE=crazycatlady;2172736]
      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      Please I understand both sided of the issue. And am one for less laws. However

      The law is you must have enclosed area when having a body of water in the back yard. That law is just for this reason. The people chose not to repair their gate and are now responsible. It could be that the gate was just down and at about the same time the child walked through. But it is still the property owners responsibility.If we fallow your reasoning then we shouldn't have any fences around pools or ponds as it is the parents responsibility to put up fences throughout the neighborhood because you put in a pond?[/QUOTE]

      No, it is the parents responsibility to fence their OWN yard so everyone else can just live their lives.
      Does it make since that a neighborhood should put up fences in their front yards(very unsightly) just in case their child gets out of the house and might wonder into the guys pond down the street? Sounds to me the pond owner is the one not taking responsibilities?

      How about this scenario. I am putting in a pond(same principle as a pool). Because there are children in the neighborhood I should put up a gate so any kind of accident can not happen. Oh wait it's not my responsibility,let the neighbors build a bunch of fences because I do not have to put up a gate?. Gees. I would put up a gate, that my friends is what I would do and that IS TAKING RESPONSIBILITY. So I guess it comes down to what side of the fence you are on.

      And that dog that bites your child in your yard.The owner of the dog would say.Hay not my responsibility,you should have had a fence to protect your child.

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    2. #42
      rainblood's Avatar
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      The chicken or the egg?

      The parent or the neighbor?
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    3. #43
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      The responsibility of protecting kids lies on the parents. Plain and simple. If someone is feeling chilly, HE puts on a sweater. He doesn't expect everyone else to swelter by asking the heat to be turned up.

      I understand the concept of protecting against idiotic, irresponsible parenting. The punishment for the homeowner who had a child trespasser unfortunately dying, just shouldn't be so extreme.

    4. #44
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      Quote Originally Posted by crazycatlady View Post
      The responsibility of protecting kids lies on the parents. Plain and simple. If someone is feeling chilly, HE puts on a sweater. He doesn't expect everyone else to swelter by asking the heat to be turned up.

      I understand the concept of protecting against idiotic, irresponsible parenting. The punishment for the homeowner who had a child trespasser unfortunately dying, just shouldn't be so extreme.
      This is a two year old that has no concept of your reasoning. Two year old trespassing,your kidding me right! Trespassing is based on the ability of the trespasser knowing what he or she is doing when trespassing.

    5. #45
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      which is why the parents should be held liable for the child's actions. Of course the kid didn't know he was trespassing! That is why parents are parents. They should be parenting.

    6. #46
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      The chicken or the egg?

      The parent or the neighbor?
      As my first post stated. #29

      Two were at fault. If either one would have done what they were supposed to do that child would be alive today.

    7. #47
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      Quote Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post
      Out here in California, we have this little ol' body of water called the Pacific Ocean.....and it is a real hazard, too, as it seems like someone -- quite often a child -- wanders away while the parents are distracted and tragically downs in the darn thing.

      We are, however, working on a plan which will incorporate an 800-mile fence......
      Hopefully the authorities are able to locate and arrest Mother Nature for criminal negligence
      -Rain

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    8. #48
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      Hopefully the authorities are able to locate and arrest Mother Nature for criminal negligence
      We probably would if we could.It's just human nature.
      Last edited by kdh; 06-20-2012 at 03:12 PM.

    9. #49
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      Quote Originally Posted by CdnJCR View Post
      The City fenced it based on "violation - pond capable of holding 600 mm of water "which indicates it was at or over 24" deep.
      That is basically 24 inches on the nose and states "capable", lending one to believe it was likely less. If assuming local law states no fence need under 24 inches, why did they arrest the neighbor?

      The question is if the law states no deeper than 24 inches, is that of water or from bottom to top lip? When I called my the city I live in, they told me water.

    10. #50
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      [QUOTE=kdh;2172767]
      Quote Originally Posted by crazycatlady View Post

      Does it make since that a neighborhood should put up fences in their front yards(very unsightly) just in case their child gets out of the house and might wonder into the guys pond down the street? Sounds to me the pond owner is the one not taking responsibilities?

      How about this scenario. I am putting in a pond(same principle as a pool). Because there are children in the neighborhood I should put up a gate so any kind of accident can not happen. Oh wait it's not my responsibility,let the neighbors build a bunch of fences because I do not have to put up a gate?. Gees. I would put up a gate, that my friends is what I would do and that IS TAKING RESPONSIBILITY. So I guess it comes down to what side of the fence you are on.

      And that dog that bites your child in your yard.The owner of the dog would say.Hay not my responsibility,you should have had a fence to protect your child.
      Yep, a dog, pool, trampoline, pond. All known dangers to young children. IMO if you want to own potentially dangerous things, you are nuts not to take reasonable measure to prevent tragedy. Its not about the law, it is about common sense. Jail or no jail, how much fun would it be to gaze upon your pond knowing it killed a kid?

      Stacy

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    11. #51
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      I must admit that I sometimes long for the good old days when a tragic accident was simply a tragic accident and nobody was to blame. And this was definitely a tragic accident that everyone involved would have liked to avoid. Today we live in an litigious society where everybody blames everyone but themselves. When me and my friends went down to the swimming hole at the local creek, there was a hand written sign that said "Swim at your own risk" and 5 gallon buckets actually had room to label the contents with type large enough to read. I simply don't understand how so many of us survived. I don't think requiring a fence to keep a toddler from drowning is a bad idea... but I don't think you can require that everything is the world is childproof either. Simply a tragic accident.

    12. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by crazycatlady View Post
      which is why the parents should be held liable for the child's actions. Of course the kid didn't know he was trespassing! That is why parents are parents. They should be parenting.
      I suspect that eventually they too will have charges filed against them if charges are warranted. My guess is the authorities are allowing the parents to bury their baby before considering bringing charges against them (or whomever was responsible for the toddler at the time.) It is hard to second guess without knowing all the facts.
      Last edited by Shadow99; 06-20-2012 at 03:36 PM.

    13. #53
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      Quote Originally Posted by crazycatlady View Post
      which is why the parents should be held liable for the child's actions. Of course the kid didn't know he was trespassing! That is why parents are parents. They should be parenting.
      Should they? On first glance it appears they should. Then I sit back an remember how many times my toddler got into trouble in the two minutes that I had my back turned. Or when I thought they were safe in their crib and they learned to climb out, or the time I checked her, she was watching cartoons, ran to get something out of the oven and found her walking out the screen door...

      Parents often suck. The mom that left her two year old alone last night in an Chicago apartment with an open window. She should lose her right to be a parent.

      These parents? Who knows. Were they laying on their couch high on crack or did the tot get out in a moment of distraction?

      This is interesting; Negligent homicide is the result of a person acting with criminal negligence who causes the death of another individual. It is considered a class A misdemeanor.

    14. #54
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      The point was brought up that someone could not watch thier child constantly. And that is the truth, but I can honestly say that neither of my children when they were 2 years old, EVER EVER EVER got outside of my house without me or my wife knowing it. I agree that the neighbor should have installed a gate because its the law and that being the only reason. Its a tragic accident but I feel like it is completley the parents fault,,,,especially if they knew the neighbor had the pond. All the more reason to keep an eye on the child.


      Thats whats wrong with the world and society now. Nobody wants to accept blame for their own screw ups. They want to blame it on somebody else. Just like the woman sueing Mcdonalds because she spilled hot coffee on her. I mean give me a break.
      Last edited by jtp79; 06-20-2012 at 03:49 PM.

    15. #55
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      I hope the system well let it go.

      I hope the parents don't sue the neighbors.

      I hope the lawyers stay out of it.

      I hope both sides see it as a terrible accident.

      Of course the parents are suffering the most but both sides are suffering of the loss.

      As Avorancher said, tragedy accident and should be left as that.

      Lesson learned,watch your children and put up gate.

    16. #56
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      That's a crappy way to learn that particular lesson.... I'd install a 20 foot high abomination of a concrete block wall with razor wire at the top after that. Here's a fence for you.
      Last edited by crazycatlady; 06-20-2012 at 03:57 PM.

    17. #57
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      Quote Originally Posted by avorancher View Post
      I must admit that I sometimes long for the good old days when a tragic accident was simply a tragic accident and nobody was to blame. And this was definitely a tragic accident that everyone involved would have liked to avoid. Today we live in an litigious society where everybody blames everyone but themselves. When me and my friends went down to the swimming hole at the local creek, there was a hand written sign that said "Swim at your own risk" and 5 gallon buckets actually had room to label the contents with type large enough to read. I simply don't understand how so many of us survived. I don't think requiring a fence to keep a toddler from drowning is a bad idea... but I don't think you can require that everything is the world is childproof either. Simply a tragic accident.
      Well said.
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    18. #58
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      I hope the court cautions the pond owner for not being familiar with obscure fencing regulations and absolves them of blame for the reckless impulses of other peoples children

      Regards, andy
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    19. #59
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      Just recently (two days ago) someone in northern Michigan here backed a car over a toddler apparently no one was watching at the time, killing the child and according to the news reporter this type of thing happens every so often.... so do we now pass a law requiring everyone who intends to back out of their own driveway to station another person in the drive to watchout for errant toddlers with parents who may have misplaced them just for a moment? Where does this crazy logic end? Why aren't we holding the parents responsible?

      I own dogs... these are creatures who will never grow up to assume their own responsiblility and will forever need constant supervision their whole lives (10-12 years), far, far longer than any toddler will ever need that type of supervision. Everyone always remarks at how well-mannered our dogs are and wishes their dogs were like them. Well, we either monitor our dogs or have them safely contained until we can again monitor them... that's why our dogs are so well mannered. If my dog had wandered over to someone else's property and drowned while trying to catch a fish, would/should I be able to sue them? bring criminal charges against the pond owner? Obviously the answer is no because we have no such ridiculous laws requiring a dog be protected dispite their irresponsible owners... we just simply recognize that the owners are irresponsible and they suffer the consequences. What perplexes me is why we have such a great tolerance for the irresponsible parent of a toddler to the point where their negligence is excused as an "ooops" but anyone who didn't anticipate this negligence on the part of the parents are then made to pay for someone else's "oooops" moment and are criminalize by these laws communities pass to excuse the irresponsible parent. No wonder we have so many uncontrollable children running around who eventually turn into problem teens and then go on to become troubled adults. Responsible parents raise well-mannered and respectful kids... same as dogs.

      Hold the parents responsible... you wanna pass laws, then pass laws regulating the irresponsible parenting.
      Last edited by monomer; 06-20-2012 at 08:07 PM.

    20. #60
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      monomer, your post is the best thought-out I have yet read on this subject. I agree with you 100%.

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