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    Thread: Police lay charges after toddler drowns in backyard pond

    1. #21
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      Here is a picture of the other backyard pond involved in a previous incident about a month ago. In this case it was a 10 month old child who was visiting his grandparents residence. The infant's grandmother found him face down in the decorative fish pond. When paramedics arrived at the home on Glen Erin Drive, he was without vital signs. After performing CPR, he regained a weak pulse and was taken to a local hospital before being airlifted to SickKids. Not sure of the outcome as 7 days later he was still fighting for his life and listed in critical condition.
      Police have ruled it an accident and have closed their investigation.
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    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiAteMyHeron View Post
      Wow, I am shocked at some of these responses. I will say that we watch our kids, especially at those younger years, but to say your kid never left your site for a moment in his/her whole life I find ridiculous. It is not about blame, it is tragic for all involved. Yes, someone will be found guilty. Trust me those poor parents will never be the same racked with guilt.
      But they will not spend a single night it jail will they? whereas the neighbors could spent the rest of their lives in prison for this. I seriously doubt the "kid left their sight for a moment"... do you really suppose the child ran around front and then into the backyard and dove into the pond and the parents noticing their child missing immediately found him pulled his lifeless body from the water unable to revive him? I think a far more likely scenario is the kid was "on the loose" for at least a half-hour if not much longer, while a parent was simply taking a break from watching him yet failed to contain him. The child may have known there was a pond in the neighbor's backyard (which would mean the parents also knew and did nothing to notify the neighbor's of the city ordinance regarding ponds in the city)... subsequently the toddler wandered around to the front, crossed over to the neighbor's, went around back to the pond and stood at the edge and probably waited as the fish showed up and then tried to touch one and fell in. He drowned and his lifeless body probably remained unfound for a lot more than several minutes. For this the neighbors should receive lifetime prison sentences and the parents absolutely no blame according to the law? The way the police are interperting the law regarding criminal negliegence doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me and certainly doesn't appear to me to be serving justice. I just don't understand how the neighbors can be held criminally liable (responsible) for the child's death and the parents aren't... using a term from Steely Dan, the police are using "pretzel logic" here... its all twisted.
      Last edited by monomer; 06-20-2012 at 12:07 PM.

    3. #23
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      What is interesting to me is that when building a pond there have been many occasions for requests on this sight to see about permits and laws to be fallowed. The fence should have had a gate,PERIOD. It's the law, our country is based on laws. The reasoning is just for this particular instance.

      It usually takes more than one situation to create a tragic story.

      One, there should have been a gate

      Two, the parents should have better supervision.

      I believe there are to many laws and government intrusion. However if a child should happen to get away from a parent(which happens all the time). They shouldn't fined the child dead at the bottom of a pond because the neighbor did not have a gate as required by law. If I walk onto someones property and walk up to their front door to ring the door bell and their dog attacks me because he ran from the backyard through were there was supposed to be a gate, and does great bodily injury,who's fault would that be? Mine for coming on to the property or theirs for not having a gate.There is no distinction between front and back when there is no gate.

    4. #24
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      I will probably get flamed for this but I am sorry, as tragic as this is, there is no law stating that "the village" should be held responsible for caring for any and all children in any radius around a particular property. Having children is a choice, and while it is reasonable to assume that a parent could lose track of a child for a short period of time, this situation is utter nonsense. If people want walls and fences to protect their children, THEY should be the ones paying to put them up around their OWN propery. Gates and locks included. My house isn't childproofed just so that anyone who might visit with a kid in tow won't have to worry. We have a fence around 2 sides of our property, a river on the third, and dense bushes on the 4th. We paid thousands for the fence and mature bushes. If that isn't good enough for your precocious wandering child, ante up the cash and we will upgrade. I am sick of fingers being pointed at everyone OTHER than the true responsible party, the PARENTS. People need to stop trying to make excuses and dig a payout over their own downfalls. Rant over.

    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      ...If I walk onto someones property and walk up to their front door to ring the door bell and their dog attacks me because he ran from the backyard through were there was supposed to be a gate, and does great bodily injury,who's fault would that be?...
      Your analogy isn't quite the same. Now if you were the one to go running around through the open gate, unannounced and into the backyard and directly approached and engaged with the dog and ended up getting bit THEN that would be a little closer to what occured here. Now do you still seriously think the dog's owner would really be to blame?
      Last edited by monomer; 06-20-2012 at 04:37 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by monomer View Post
      Your analogy isn't quite the same. Now if you were the one to go running around through the open gate, unannounced and into the backyard and directly appoarch and engaged with the dog then that would be a little closer to what occured. Now do you still think the dog's owner would be to blame?
      Please red my last sentence. I would not go into back yard if there was a gate.

    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      Please red my last sentence. I would not go into back yard if there was a gate.
      Okay let's just say the fence had no gate at all... does that really change the whole issue of who is to blame for you? Remember the pond is a passive object and did not 'attack' the child... quite the opposite if anything. Say you were a burglar and stepped on a rake laying around in the yard and you injured yourself on it, should you win a lawsuit against the homeowners for being negligent? Its now getting a bit silly... this is why one has to be careful when using analogies to try and justify a point of view... we often will bend it to suit our own POV (this is true for me as well as for you).
      Last edited by monomer; 06-20-2012 at 04:39 PM.

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by crazycatlady View Post
      I will probably get flamed for this but I am sorry, as tragic as this is, there is no law stating that "the village" should be held responsible for caring for any and all children in any radius around a particular property. Having children is a choice, and while it is reasonable to assume that a parent could lose track of a child for a short period of time, this situation is utter nonsense. If people want walls and fences to protect their children, THEY should be the ones paying to put them up around their OWN propery. Gates and locks included. My house isn't childproofed just so that anyone who might visit with a kid in tow won't have to worry. We have a fence around 2 sides of our property, a river on the third, and dense bushes on the 4th. We paid thousands for the fence and mature bushes. If that isn't good enough for your precocious wandering child, ante up the cash and we will upgrade. I am sick of fingers being pointed at everyone OTHER than the true responsible party, the PARENTS. People need to stop trying to make excuses and dig a payout over their own downfalls. Rant over.
      I totally agree.

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    9. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by monomer View Post
      Okay let's just say the fence had no gate at all... does that really change the whole issue of who is to blame for you? Remember the pond is a passive object and did not 'attack' the child... quite the opposite if anything.
      If there is no gate then there is not fence. The fence is now considered of no value. The child did not open a gate and go into the back yard . The young child does not and can not differentiate on what we are talking about. The chlid was just walking in there mined.

    10. #30
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      The property owner was arrested yesterday and spent the night in jail, will have first court appearance later today where in all likelihood he will be released on bail.

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    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      If there is no gate then there is not fence. The fence is now considered of no value. The child did not open a gate and go into the back yard . The young child does not and can not differentiate on what we are talking about. The chlid was just walking in there mined.
      So whose responsibility is it to child-proof the world for them? Is it the parents' or everyone else's? According to the way this situation has evolved it appears its everyone else responsibility. Does that even make sense to you? really?

    12. #32
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      for heavens sake this is a 2 year old. They are going to be drawn to water. I bet someone had took him to the pond before. he wondered off alone be was not being watched, the doors should have been locked keeping him safe from harm. Now if they let him outside in an unsecured area they are as much to blame as the pond owner. all of my gates are locked but if a child want in they will get in. I have been arguing with my bil when he brings Christian over he does not watch him. He has already fallen into dads pond.
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    13. #33
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      Its a very sad situation all the way around, as for two year olds some are darn creative. I had to put keyed inside deadbolts on my doors. When my son was two as he found a way to reach the deadbolts open them and go outside always closing said door behind him, in the time it took me to go to the bathroom. And I am talking a 2 min break there folks he was that smart and quick and even when we switched to the keyed locks and put the keys way up he did on several occasions manage to get the key open the lock and get that door open. For about a year I was afraid to go to the bathroom by myself and often took him with me just to be safe. I always had to have him in my sight or check on him every three to five minutes even in his own room.

      Kids are quick and fast and it really can in some cases happen that quick, however as the parent you should know your kid and have taken appriate action to keep them in check too. But the people should still have a good safety system for their pond it part of the responsiblity of owning a pond in my eyes or a pool. You have to take action to protect yourself from other peoples actions or stupidity. That is a sad fact today you have to protect your selves from what others might do. And in this case to be in compliance with your local laws.

    14. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by monomer View Post
      So whose responsibility is it to child-proof the world for them? Is it the parents' or everyone else's? According to the way this situation has evolved it appears its everyone else responsibility. Does that even make sense to you? really?
      Please I understand both sided of the issue. And am one for less laws. However

      The law is you must have enclosed area when having a body of water in the back yard. That law is just for this reason. The people chose not to repair their gate and are now responsible. It could be that the gate was just down and at about the same time the child walked through. But it is still the property owners responsibility.If we fallow your reasoning then we shouldn't have any fences around pools or ponds as it is the parents responsibility to put up fences throughout the neighborhood because you put in a pond?

    15. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by Altairss View Post
      Its a very sad situation all the way around, as for two year olds some are darn creative. I had to put keyed inside deadbolts on my doors. When my son was two as he found a way to reach the deadbolts open them and go outside always closing said door behind him, in the time it took me to go to the bathroom. And I am talking a 2 min break there folks he was that smart and quick and even when we switched to the keyed locks and put the keys way up he did on several occasions manage to get the key open the lock and get that door open. For about a year I was afraid to go to the bathroom by myself and often took him with me just to be safe. I always had to have him in my sight or check on him every three to five minutes even in his own room.

      Kids are quick and fast and it really can in some cases happen that quick, however as the parent you should know your kid and have taken appriate action to keep them in check too. But the people should still have a good safety system for their pond it part of the responsiblity of owning a pond in my eyes or a pool. You have to take action to protect yourself from other peoples actions or stupidity. That is a sad fact today you have to protect your selves from what others might do. And in this case to be in compliance with your local laws.
      I was just thinking about how fast little kids can be...A fence without a gate is useless, and that gate is also useless unless there's a sturdy lock on it. Neighbors had a pool put in, fenced all around and has one of those self latching gates that you can only open from reaching over the top and to the inside. Three year old dashes over, steps up on the bottom bar of the fence, reaches his little arms through the bars and voila...open. It has a lock with a key on it now.

      However, I still fault the parents. Going with what crazycatlady said...I didn't birth it so I'm not about to go out of my way to childproof my existence for it. Not my responsibility. How many of us here who don't have children around chose to fence in our ponds? I didn't. How many things must I put a fence around? My patio tub, whiskey barrels? There's definitely more than enough water in there to drown.

      Such a sad, sad situation all the way around...

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    16. #36
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      [QUOTE=kdh;2172730]Please I understand both sided of the issue. And am one for less laws. However

      The law is you must have enclosed area when having a body of water in the back yard. That law is just for this reason. The people chose not to repair their gate and are now responsible. It could be that the gate was just down and at about the same time the child walked through. But it is still the property owners responsibility.If we fallow your reasoning then we shouldn't have any fences around pools or ponds as it is the parents responsibility to put up fences throughout the neighborhood because you put in a pond?[/QUOTE]

      No, it is the parents responsibility to fence their OWN yard so everyone else can just live their lives.

    17. #37
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      This is the area where the child entered the property.
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      Out here in California, we have this little ol' body of water called the Pacific Ocean.....and it is a real hazard, too, as it seems like someone -- quite often a child -- wanders away while the parents are distracted and tragically downs in the darn thing.

      We are, however, working on a plan which will incorporate an 800-mile fence......

    19. #39
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      I think that anyone that has a pond more than a few inches deep on their property, that lives in a suburban or urban area and has not made a concerted attempt to protect themselves from these sort of incidents is a complete idiot. Yes parents "should" watch their kids. Sadly, there are a whole lot of cruddy parents/babysitters/elder siblings out there. The laws are to protect the children unfortunate enough to be born to them.

      Stacy

    20. #40
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      Which again points out the flaw in the law whereby the irresponsible parents get a slap on the wrist, and the homeowners get jail time.

      Edit: and I feel sorry that the kid died, I do, but this "village" thing really rankles me.

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