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    Thread: Pool Conversion to Totally DIY “Koiphen” Pond

    1. #1
      patmur is offline Member
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      Pool Conversion to Totally DIY “Koiphen” Pond

      Hi, This is my first thread as you will be able to see. Not sure if I should be in Construction or DIY 'cause it is both but... I have researched Koiphen for several years and built my first 1,200 Koi Pond with the help I received. My new project is way too complex for this simple DIY’r. I have attached a picture of my 22,000 gallon pool that is to be converted partially to a koi pond. Also attached is a drawing I have made of the future plans. None of the existing plumbing can be used (leak somewhere). As you can see there is a concrete sidewalk surrounding the pool area and chain link fence. I plan to create the walls and divisions with sand bags and backfill the voids for planting and walking. I will probably have to raise the pond above the pool edge to accommodate an overflow and I also will not be able to have a waste drain. I am thinking I will have to use a trash pump from the settlement chamber.
      I am just now working on the drawing and filling sandbags. The finished pond is supposed to be approximately 17 X 12 with a 12 ft stream. I plan to have 2 TPR’s and a No-Niche Skimmer. I will need to know what size piping to use in some areas. Starting from the bottom up… I know I need 2 Bottom drains. My first concern is that, given the space constraints and layout, one of them is about 8 ft further away from the settlement chamber than the other. What is the best way to compensate for that? I wondered if I should make one 3” and one 4” and enlarge the settlement chamber…Or….open for advice.
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    2. #2
      birdman's Avatar
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      I couldn't read your drawing, to small for my old eyes. How deep is the pool? Is there a shallow end and a deep end?

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      Thank you for replying. Yes the shallow end will be used for the pond @ 3.5 ft deep. The deep end will be used for the support filters, etc. The SC will be 4.5 ft deep. I have it "drawn in at 4X4X4.5. The depth I can't change but I can go wider if needed. (Of course if I raise it all for the overflow, it should add at least 6 inches.) I am hoping to be able to use your design of a S&G Filter for the falls the BioFilter (media for that still undecided). Do I go to the SC with the same size pipe as the BD then reduce down to 2" when I get to the BF and for the following filter system? (I will work on enlarging the diagram

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      Hoping this comes out larger on that end. Just a little blurry.
      Last edited by patmur; 06-11-2012 at 05:38 PM.

    5. #5
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      Well, the new pic of the diagram is bigger but still a bit blurry. From what I can see, I would recommend changing to two 4" bottom drains. Run 4" lines all the way from each one to the SC, or better yet, save some space and get an Aquaforte III sieve for removing the heavy particulates. They can handle two 4" drains with a flow of up to 7900gph. Also much easier to clean/maintain as well. Then you don't need a trash pump to clean it out. From there, you would go to the pump and then on to your fines/bio filter units and UV clarifier. Remember, the bio and s/g filters need to be pump fed/gravity returns in this scenario. Now, let's take a look at your skimmer circuit. You can pump suction directly from the skimmers (2 necessary in this design). From the pump you could go to a pressurized filter like an Ultima, add your UV light after this filter and then on to either pressurized in pond returns or the waterfall, whichever way you decide. As you live in Virginia and I would imagine have some rather cold winters, you might think about using the skimmer circuit to feed the waterfall and the BD circuit feeding the filters and gravity returning that water to the returns within the pond. That would allow you to shut down the skimmer circuit in the winter and continue to keep your BD circuit running all year.

      That at least gets us started! So, I gather that you plan on doing a new concrete shell within this existing pool shell, is that right?

      Mike
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    6. #6
      patmur is offline Member
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      No new shell. The floor is four inches of what they called vermiculite (not like the vermiculite I know from gardening?). Very easy to dig up. The side walls are steel. This will have to be a liner pond. I have the Hayward Pro Sand Filter I thought about converting but didn't want to go to the extra electrical usage expense and larger pump just to run it. I know what all of that cost from the pool. I like the ideas to be able to keep it going through the winter too. This gives me a lot of info to "draw" up. I will plan to change to 2 - 4" Bottom drains and go from there. Thanks!!
      Last edited by patmur; 06-10-2012 at 09:14 PM.

    7. #7
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      I would go with two 4" BDs in the deep end. If your going to go with a liner and can dig in the existing bottom it should be easy to set them in. As Mike suggested the Aqua Forte 111 sieve would be your best bet. Are you planing on a filter pit for below water level gravity flow filtration? Or do you have a remote location some where to set the barrels for filters where they would be out of sight?
      I see allot of trees in the back ground, will you have allot of leaves blowing into your pond?

    8. #8
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      I checked the price of the Aquaforte and that is not within my DIY range. It would be nice. I am using the deep end for the SC & filters. It is farthest from the house and the pond would be better for viewing in the shallow end (3.5 ft). I was hoping I would be able to have the SC and BF at water level (bury what I need to) with access pipes (holes) to any valves like for the BD, etc. Will this not work? The S/G Filter Falls would be above level of course. Not really a remote location available out of view. Kind of like an open field. There are plenty of trees. We are planning on putting a carport type cover over the pond when finished. Mike suggested 2 skimmers also. Even with two 4" BD's will the distance difference be a problem? One will be 8 ft farther away from the SC.

    9. #9
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      Patmur just a suggestion...this thread/tutorial might help make a schematic and be easier read and clearer for the guys to help make suggestions

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...-SketchUp-Tips
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      I haven't gotten very good with sketch up...still playing with it. I tried scanning this time. Thanks
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      Thanks
      Last edited by patmur; 06-11-2012 at 04:05 PM.

    12. #12
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      Now I think I get you. You are going to wall off the deep end and use part of that for a filter pit. The metal framed poly tanks make nice containers for settlement tanks, and are usually free is you scrounge around for them. You have enough room you could use two, one for each BD. Then gravity flow from each to a 55 gallon barrel as a bio filter, either static or moving bed.
      Lets look at some numbers. A good number for a 4" BD is 3500 gph. Settlement should be 10% of the flow rate so if you could use a 330 gallon tote, or even the 275 gallon size that is close enough to the 10% of 3500 your aiming for. One 55 gallon bio filter can flow 3000 to 3500 gph so your matched there. Tee the two outlets of the bio barrels to one pump and pump this back to your under water returns.
      Run your skimmers to a 2nd pump then to multiple sand/gravel filters feeding your waterfall. Figure 2000 gph per S/G filter.

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      Thanks. I actually understand. I haven't been able to find a source for barrels or tanks (that was the reason for SC pond idea) but will keep looking. I was concerned about the BD distance difference. It makes sense separate the SC. Do I figure the pumps based on the piping and filter size speed limits then?
      Last edited by patmur; 06-12-2012 at 12:50 PM.

    14. #14
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      The pumps need to be sized to where they are pumping. Once you get all your filtration figured out then a pump can be sized to match that.

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      Yes, I know that will be awhile. Right now I have a lot of sandbags and backfilling to do, plus, gathering of "things" needed. Thanks for your help!!!

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      OK. I found 2 IBC tanks on Craigslist (25.00 each) and kind of local, only a 30 minute drive. Each 4" bottom drain will have a separate tank. One happens to be 330 gallon and one is 275 gallon. I plan to use the 330 for the drain that is the farthest away from the tanks. In my research of KOIPHEN, I found the Birdman 330 gallon settling tank, which I will pattern mine after. I have a question about the inlet and outlet sizes. On Birdman's the inlet is 4" and the outlet is 3". So the outlet should be a size smaller than the inlet?
      I am planning on going from these SC tanks to a Bio Filter then to the pump per suggestions in Filtration Basics: (In most cases it is usually best to gravity flow, or “suck” the water through the bio filter. The best way is to have your bio filter in line after your settling tank, so your pump is pulling water through the BD, through the settlement tank, through the bio filter, then to the pump suction. The one exception are trickle towers and showers that have to be pump fed)

    17. #17
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      Your learnin'.

      If the settlement tank is going to gravity feed a bio filter, then I'd go 4" in and 4" out. You could even go with two 4" inchers out to the bio barrel. This will help with draw down. If you utilize stand pipes in the barrels as on/off flow stoppers, you can save big bucks on valves.

      steve

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      That sounds interesting!!
      Do you mean stand pipes in the SC? Are they hard to use? I think I envision bending over the SC trying to put a pipe in a hole down in the water with the water gushing and it being awkward??
      Last edited by patmur; 06-20-2012 at 02:43 PM.

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      We have had record heat days here and between that and "scrounging" things are moving slow!. This picture shows the pond part taking shape. As I come up with the sandbags, we backfill. At the far end, we have installed what I call our "Smokestack". Since there is no real drainage hole to this steel wall frame, we have placed gravel (and will finish with dirt) around a large pipe that we will house a sump pump to remove any rainwater. The pipe will be cut off at ground level.
      I believe at this point I am almost ready to dig the bottom drains (2) so I can close in that end of the sandbags. That should be the next pic but it is already too hot today for anymore and it is only 8:30 Everyone have a safe July 4th Holiday!
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      We have made some progress. More sand bags, backfilled some, have the ibc tanks, and starting to work on how to bring the bottom drains to the tanks. The tanks will be placed in the vicinity of where the pipes are pointed in the picture. I need to do the plumbing work on the tanks before placing them but I have to figure exactly where they will be in height first. I wanted to double check my understanding...to be sure.. the settlement tanks should be placed at the same level as the pond...right?
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