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  • Results 1 to 16 of 16

    Thread: plan check

    1. #1
      tadiba's Avatar
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      plan check

      Hi All. I would appreciate a quick plan check and a suggestion for a filter. I am digging a new pond that by rough calculation I think is about 3,500 gallons, maybe 4,000 but I really don't know, about 5' or 6' deep (last time the bottom got shallower and shallower as the concrete slumped), and freeform in a sort of soybean shape. I plan to coat it with Thoroseal. I plan to have a 1 - 2' high 31"wide waterfall at one end and a skimmer at the other. I have a 4" koitoilet 1 with aeration gravity fed to two 200 gallon SC's behind the pond, which then will go to (I think) a Sequence 750, which I haven't bought yet, and then to a filter, which I haven't bought yet. I also will have 4 TPR's that I think will be fed by a 2,400 gph skimmer pump that goes through a Savio Skimmerfilter unit, which I will run in the winter when the waterfall is off. Does this sound okay? Any suggestions for a filter and is that pump okay? Thanks for your feedback.
      -Tania

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    2. #2
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      How long and how wide is the pond going to be... are you looking to DIY the filters or buy something.. maybe a picture or drawling of the layout you are looking to use would help.. you could create this using paint or drawling it on paper and scanning it.
      Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. - Benjamin Franklin.

      you cant fix stupid no matter how hard you try.

    3. #3
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      The pond is about 17' x about 7' and I think it will end up being about 5' deep after the plumbing is installed. Right now it is at 6' deep but it is just a hole with a collar. I would like mostly for the filter to require as little maintenance as possible. I can buy one or make one. Space is an issue too - I don't have a lot.

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by tadiba View Post
      Hi All. I would appreciate a quick plan check and a suggestion for a filter. I am digging a new pond that by rough calculation I think is about 3,500 gallons, maybe 4,000 but I really don't know, about 5' or 6' deep (last time the bottom got shallower and shallower as the concrete slumped), and freeform in a sort of soybean shape. I plan to coat it with Thoroseal. I plan to have a 1 - 2' high 31"wide waterfall at one end and a skimmer at the other. I have a 4" koitoilet 1 with aeration gravity fed to two 200 gallon SC's behind the pond, which then will go to (I think) a Sequence 750, which I haven't bought yet, and then to a filter, which I haven't bought yet. I also will have 4 TPR's that I think will be fed by a 2,400 gph skimmer pump that goes through a Savio Skimmerfilter unit, which I will run in the winter when the waterfall is off. Does this sound okay? Any suggestions for a filter and is that pump okay? Thanks for your feedback.
      -Tania
      Hi Tania

      Welcome to Koiphen. I was trying to digest your plan but am a bit confused. You mention that the pond is planned to be 5'-6' deep. Last time, the bottom got shallower as the concrete slumped. Does this mean on a previous pond or on this current project? Sounds like you're doing the concrete work yourself. What type of reinforcement have you put in place? How thick is the concrete shell going to be?

      A Sequence 750 is an okay pump, but I would think a small Sequence 1000 model would provide you better serviceability. Actually, with a single 4" bottom drain, why not use one of the 200gal tanks for settling and the second as a moving bed bio filter. The the pump would draw water from the bio filter. As you weather is a concern, I would suggest pumping this water to the tprs, not the waterfall.

      The skimmer circuit - is this 2400gph pump you mention a submersible pump that sits in the back of the skimmer? If so, not the best plan for this circuit. As even the Savio mini skimmer can handle a flow rate of 3500gph or so, I would set my sights on an outside the pond pump for this, to some sort of filtration unit, they send that water to the waterfall. That way, when winter comes, you shut off the skimmer and the waterfall. Leave the bottom drain circuit to do the work of in-pond circulation the whole year.

      Mike
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    5. #5
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      Sorry, I guess I was less than clear. My first pond was tiny and was a liner pond. I got tired of holes in the liner from the occasional accident (dog claws, etc.) , and covered the next, 900 gallon liner pond with a non-structural fibered concrete "skim coat" of about 8" . It worked quite well. http://www.taniadibbs.com/aspen-oil-...ding/index.htm
      I am afraid to go with a concrete or block pool on a DIY job in a place with our soils and winters. I actually posted a question on which type of pond to build this time https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...d-construction
      but didn't get too many responses so I just decided to make it the same way again and I think it is too late to turn back now. The main difference between this pond and the last one is that we made a collar on this one that is still under construction.
      Yes, it was DIY last time too and the mix had too much slump and collected a lot at the bottom, decreasing the depth a lot. I will get a 2 or 3" slump this time and will also put deer fencing or chicken wire in the concrete to help hold it in place.
      I was going to have the skimmer plumbed as well as having the drop in pump, but maybe that is a bad idea. I was thinking of having another external pump like a Sequence going to a filter from the SC's. I am not sure how to make a moving bed bio filter out of a water tank but if you think that is the way to go I can look it up. I used to have one SC only that was made out of a drum with concrete making a cone at the bottom and it worked great, but still I always thought two in a row would be better, maybe with the second one with some filter material in it. I like the idea of turning off the skimmer and waterfall and still having the BD working. Can the TPR's handle the flow from the Sequence 1000 you suggested? Thanks for your response, Tania

    6. #6
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      since you say you dont have much space to work with, i would think that an Ultima 6000 would be a good bet for the bottom drain filter, maybe a zakki lantern shower if you have a heavy fish load.

    7. #7
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      I would beef up the pump on the BD circuit since a 4" BD and 2 200g SC could handle quite abit of flow.

      The suggestion to do a skimmer > pump >waterfall circuit for winter shutdown is good. Could incorporate S/G filter into waterfall for fines filtration with some credit for bio

      Addition bio could be added after the BD pump via static or MB bio filter. Don't know what you're plans are on either using a filter pit or burying tanks? If the top of the bio filter is kept high enought above water surface, it could gravity feed the TPRs. So you could have;

      BD > SC > pump > bio > TPR

      Couple substitution options;

      Don't want waterfall, could use TT or shower at end if skimmer circuit. and then use Ultima/bead inplace of static/MB on the BD circuit. Can't really count on much bio from bead type filters. So for winter shutdown on skimmer circuit, wouldn't have a dedicate bio filter running. But as water temps drop, so does bio activity so maybe not much of a concern.
      Last edited by mpageler; 05-10-2012 at 01:11 PM.
      MN Mike

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      125g MB w/8ft2 Biollow9
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      My Pond Construction
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      Calculating K1 Bio Media


    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by tadiba View Post
      Sorry, I guess I was less than clear. My first pond was tiny and was a liner pond. I got tired of holes in the liner from the occasional accident (dog claws, etc.) , and covered the next, 900 gallon liner pond with a non-structural fibered concrete "skim coat" of about 8" . It worked quite well. http://www.taniadibbs.com/aspen-oil-...ding/index.htm
      I am afraid to go with a concrete or block pool on a DIY job in a place with our soils and winters. I actually posted a question on which type of pond to build this time https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...d-construction
      but didn't get too many responses so I just decided to make it the same way again and I think it is too late to turn back now. The main difference between this pond and the last one is that we made a collar on this one that is still under construction.
      Yes, it was DIY last time too and the mix had too much slump and collected a lot at the bottom, decreasing the depth a lot. I will get a 2 or 3" slump this time and will also put deer fencing or chicken wire in the concrete to help hold it in place.
      I was going to have the skimmer plumbed as well as having the drop in pump, but maybe that is a bad idea. I was thinking of having another external pump like a Sequence going to a filter from the SC's. I am not sure how to make a moving bed bio filter out of a water tank but if you think that is the way to go I can look it up. I used to have one SC only that was made out of a drum with concrete making a cone at the bottom and it worked great, but still I always thought two in a row would be better, maybe with the second one with some filter material in it. I like the idea of turning off the skimmer and waterfall and still having the BD working. Can the TPR's handle the flow from the Sequence 1000 you suggested? Thanks for your response, Tania
      Well, depending on the # of tprs, yes, easily. In this case, one 200gal tank for settlement, gravity fed from 4" BD, install TWO 4" lines between the two tanks to reduce drawdown, then a single 2" line from the second, moving bed bio filter, to the pump. From the pump, install the UV on this circuit and then on to a manifold with 4 2" ball valves to allow fine tuning adjustment of each tpr.

      As far as the skimmer circuit, that's where I'd install an Ultima 4000 pressurized filter. Or, if you prefer, install 2 sand/gravel filters behind the waterfall in such a way that when you shut them down for the winter, you can wash/drain them completely.

      For pumps, I would recommend an Evolution ESS6400 or Sequence 1000/SEQ6100 for the bottom drain circuit. For the skimmer circuit, depending on whether you go with a Ultima 4000, or sand/gravel filters, I would recommend and ESS5200. Oh, and if the bottom drain is aerated (highly recommended) make sure you get an air pump capable of at least 40litres of air.

      Mike
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      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    9. #9
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      Thanks for all the advice. I am going to draw it out to make sure I understand everything. I see that I need to make the BD go to the TPR's and to upsize my pump and get an Ultima filter.

    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by tadiba View Post
      Thanks for all the advice. I am going to draw it out to make sure I understand everything. I see that I need to make the BD go to the TPR's and to upsize my pump and get an Ultima filter.
      Good start!!!

      Mike
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      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    11. #11
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      Yes, please do. Drawings are easier for us to see what your wanting to do.

    12. #12
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      Okay, I scanned a rough drawing. My questions are:
      Is the manifold something I can put together with branching "y" valves from Home Depot or is there something better?
      How high off the floor do I put the TPR's if the walls are 5 - 6' ? Stagger?
      I know I need to isolate components with valves. If my gravity fed SC's are submerged in the dirt, how do I put a valve in from the BD that I can reach?
      Does the rest of this look okay?
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      Last edited by tadiba; 05-12-2012 at 08:34 AM.

    13. #13
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      I also have a question about how to attach flex pipe to the TPR. Since the pipe is ridged do you need to do something special or use a special union?

    14. #14
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      I just used a deep socket joint. Since I was using all electrical pipe, I used the bell end as a junction between standard PVC fittings and the flex pipe. Outside of that, I used the sch40 couple as a bridge.

    15. #15
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      I would STRONGLY suggest you nix the idea of the "drop in " pump in the skimmer and use an appropriately sized out of water pump to feed the Ultima filter. I can't remember, did you mention the size of the Ultima? I would urge you to go no smaller than a model 6000 here. You could get away with a 4000 with 2" valve head, but the cost is almost the same!

      I agree about the flex pvc IF you're talking about true "flex" pvc and not that accordian-type hosing sold in pet shops and aquascape dealers. That stuff is usually metric in size and too weak for this type of application. Yes, we too use the electrical "sweeps", either 45s or 90s for this as well. I would suggest that your tprs are set roughly 12" from the bottom of the pond. There is no need in a pond this size for mid-level or higher returns as the air dome will provide that necessary movement to the skimmer.

      Mike
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    16. #16
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      Thank you for that. I will follow your advice, and ordered the 6,000, and I did get that heavy duty flex that is not really that flexible, and will size the proper pump. I really appreciate the help.
      -Tania

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