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Thread: Can koi live in 2' deep pond?

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    Nathan Tran is offline
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    Can koi live in 2' deep pond?

    First of all, I am not a serious koi keeper but I really like to add koi fish in my pond.

    I was always wanted to have a natural shallow looking koi pond. But after doing research, I found that a minimum depth of a koi pond should be at least 3' deep. I decided to go with cheapy water garden pond 7 years ago. I recently watching Tom Burton koi pond (18" deep) on youtube (see link below) then I decided to have a koi pond that is about 30" deep with good filtration.

    Tom Burton 18" deep koi pond:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ5ziqCYtKk

    I had no experience with big koi. I would like to hear everyone opinions if koi can live in shallow pond? what problems might happen in shallow pond?

    Thank you very much.
    Last edited by Nathan Tran; 04-24-2012 at 10:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan Tran View Post
    First of all, I am not a serious koi keeper but I really like to add koi fish in my pond.

    I was always wanted to have a natural shallow looking koi pond. But after doing research, I found that a minimum depth of a koi pond should be at least 3' deep. I decided to go with cheapy water garden pond 7 years ago. I recently watching Tom Burton koi pond (18" deep) on youtube (see link below) then I decided to have a koi pond that is about 30" deep with good filtration.

    Tom Burton 18" deep koi pond:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ5ziqCYtKk

    I had no experience with big koi. I would like to hear everyone opinions if koi can live in shallow pond? what problems might happen in shallow pond?

    Thank you very much.
    Koi can live very well in a shallow pond. It is not ideal but you can certainly make it work. deeper ponds offer predator protection and also aid in keeping temperature fluctuations to a minimum because, the deeper the pond, the more it is insulated from temperature swings.
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    Large shallow ponds are a lot more work to keep clean.

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    I don't think I had problem with predator b/c behind my backyard is a busy street + I had gold fish and small koi in my
    15" deep garden pond for 7 years with no prolem. The only problem I had is when Koi getting big, the pond getting really dirty b/c I don't have proper filtration for koi.

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    Nathan,
    I had a water garden that was 2 feet deep and the koi did very well. I used water lilies and anacharis to help shade the pond from the sun and to regulate the water temps a bit. It also gave the koi someplace to hide from predators. My only problem with it was it had a rock bottom which required a yearly total cleanout and power washing...expensive and a pain.
    I switched to a 5 foot deep pond with no rocks so I could keep larger koi and to protect them more from the extreme temp changes here.
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    The big thing to remember from that video is, while they mention its not volume of water but rather the filtration on the water to get the balanced levels. You need to plan for filtration that will exceed your current needs so the fish grow and catch up to your filter's abilities. If you go too small on the filtration, you will always be playing catch up.

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    i already replied to your other thread. can you have koi or any fish in a shallow pond? yes. but should they be?

    ya need to remember fish are cold blooded animals and rely on there surroundings to adjust there body temperatures. (getting in shade when there hot) (getting into the sun when they are cold). a shallow pond. acts kinda like a hot water solar panel. the black liner just sucks up the heat and transfers it right to the water.

    a fish is not a dog or cat, were you can let out in the back yard to run, or put on a leash to talk for a walk. for a fish the pond is it permanent home. what exercise the fish should get, is limited by the pond setup itself. if you are under feeding on purpose, to keep the fish smaller. to me, it would be boarder line starving of an animal. there are to many folks that do not feed or take care of dogs/cats and other animals, to a point were animals become skin and bone and then die.

    i watch fish swim up and down, side to side, and every direction possible as the go about there moving throughout the day. ya need to remember fish are not 2D dimensional like cats and dogs that walk on flat surfaces. fish live in a world were they can go up and down, left and right. i would think having a larger fish in a shallow pond. were the fish could not exercise its swim bladder. to adjust its level within the water, may be at higher risk of something later down the road.

    if you are under feeding because your filtration is not up to par. then ya need to do something about filtration.

    smaller ponds with larger fish can quickly go belly up. with a complete fish kill. a good portion of this is "dilution" of various stuff within the water. from minerals, to ammonia, to nitrites, to fish waste, to everything else. other words i add a table spoon of instant tea to a cup, it may be just right, but if i add a table spoon of instant tea to a gallon water jug, the tea is going to be pretty weak tasting. but for ponds, say you have a power outage, and your pumps go down. smaller ponds with same amount of fish as a larger pond with same size of fish and everything. the larger pond will more likely allow the fish to keep on going, while the smaller pond will be at a higher risk of fish dieing.

    shallow pond vs deeper pond but same amount of gallons. 1.5 feet deep pond is going to require a lot more maintenance / chore work to keep the pond clean. and/or more GPH flowing through pond. more GPH means larger and/or more filters to handle the GPH of water. filters that remove waste or trap waste. are normally sized based on GPH / flow rate. only thing that is really sized based on stocking levels, and feeding amount is bio filter.
    Pond and Construction Forum 101 good place for any first timers to the forum. for finding resources and general info.

    Ryan

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    I found these website. Very good info.
    http://www.australiankoiassoc.bizlan...ond_depth.html
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...a-shallow-pond

    After doing a lot of research. It seems like going deeper is the only way with koi pond.
    How about 12'x8'x40" = 2500 Gallon. Is this going to work with a nexus easy pod filter. I wanted to have a nexus 210 but my budget is not allowed.
    Last edited by Nathan Tran; 04-24-2012 at 02:50 PM.

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    push for another 500 plus gallons. for a total of 3000 or more gallons for the pond. 2500 gallon pond vs 3000 gallon pond. = same amount of filtration and sized pumps.

    it deals with sizing pipe, sizing bottom drains, sizing returns, etc... that extra 500 plus gallons would put ya right in the ball park, of 3" pipe work. and still have a min velocity of water flowing within the pipes to keep the pipes fairly clean.
    Pond and Construction Forum 101 good place for any first timers to the forum. for finding resources and general info.

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    My budget is only 3K.

    I had a contractor will pour bottom concrete for $400- 12'x12'x9"
    I am going to build 8x8x16" concrete block wall and sealed with concrete sealer.

    My concrete pond will be around 1K.

    Do you think the rest of 2K will be enough to buy filtration for a 3000 Gallon pond?

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    budget? what budget i went past that limit a long time ago.

    all depends on what type of filtration you go with. there are a lot of DIY filters here on the forum. most filters are not that difficult to make. just takes some time, and some knowledge. some folks are pretty thrifty and already have a set of tools to DIY things. while others may need this or that.

    honestly though plumbing most folks under estimate. valves are a costly little item, then fittings, then pipe itself.

    before you get your concrete contractor in there to pour the concrete or do any work. wait till you have a solid plan for entire pond. (size and placement of inlets, outlets on the pond) and types of filters and how to plumb them all up.

    what will be the inside dimensions of the pond?
    Pond and Construction Forum 101 good place for any first timers to the forum. for finding resources and general info.

    Ryan

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    Hahaha, I was so ignorant. I first started with $350 budget then 1K that sound right, Then 1.5K a little too much, Then 2K let me think about it.
    How about 3K too much but I can handle it. Now, you're saying 3K is still not enough. I guest I should going back to water garden
    with some gold fish in there to keep moschito out.

    I am glad that I asked question before started.

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    the concrete bottom you could skip on. and just pour a concrete footer for the block wall. and then go with a regular epdm style liner.

    if you are in shape you could buy a 2 bag concrete mixer and do the footer by yourself. with a helper or 2. (normally easier and cheaper long run to just buy a concrete mixer when they go on sale)

    some folks are able to find "seconds" for concrete blocks, or ask some local building contractor that is building a wall or what not. if they can have left overs.

    it all depends on the person and if you are willing to wait and be patient for good deals.

    if you find a dealer you like, buy what you need from a given single dealer. perhaps get a bigger discount. vs trying to nick dime things from multi dealers.
    Pond and Construction Forum 101 good place for any first timers to the forum. for finding resources and general info.

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    It just does not make sense to me that I buy koi for only $10 each at pet store and building a couple thousand dollars pond for them?

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    Goldfish get to be 10 - 12" at the most. Koi on the other hand, whether they be 10.00 or 1,000.00 get to be twice that size plus. That's why they need a bigger pond and better filtration. It's not a matter of how expensive the koi are vs the pond, it's a matter of providing them a healthy environment to live in as they grow.

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    it is that way most animals and pets. cats and dogs, need yearly shots, plus house training, potty training, sit, stand, lay down, roll over, fetch, etc... food, exercise....

    horses, need shaded areas and/or some sort of protection from elements, hoofs taken care of. sheep need there hoves checked, and wool / hair taken care of.

    1 buck fish, or a free puppy or kitten. they all need a good environment, and be taken care of.
    Pond and Construction Forum 101 good place for any first timers to the forum. for finding resources and general info.

    Ryan

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    You know there are some absolutely beautiful goldfish with lovely long flowing fins and tails. If you have to be on a tight budget but want something pretty and permanent and shallow, there is nothing wrong with going with a goldfish pond.

    One of the nice things about a shallow pond is that it's great for waterlily and other pond plants, and goldfish generally don't eat lily's to death, like koi will.

    A really well designed and maintained goldfish pond is a lot more pleasing than a too small and problematic koi pond.
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    OK, I am going back to water garden with some gold fish. I am ok with the koi pond budget but I don't really feel safe to have a 3' deep pond in the backyard with young kids. I will wait for another five years when kids growing up.

    I would like to thank you everyone here were helping me solved the problem. I am very sad about local fish pet store don't know anything about koi pond and they build koi pond for others to make a living. They said bottom drains, skimmers are just creating more problem for leaking, just a submerge pump is enough.
    Last edited by Nathan Tran; 04-24-2012 at 11:04 PM.

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    The problem even with some dealers, they're backyard hobbist turn pro.... and they have only learned as far as they got and now running a business often don't have time to learn more. A pet shop is rarely the place to ask pond questions. Best place? Here.

    Goldfish, check out wakins and watonai's, I think you'll be pleased.
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    kid safety, kids can die in less than 6 inches of water, get them into some swimming lessons, at some local place. that way if they do happen to get into some water. they will not freak out and panic, but understand what they need to do to get out. treat the pond like a pool. pending on were you live. your local codes / regs / laws may already require you treat pond like a pool. and in that putting up a fence around pond with auto locking latch, perhaps motion sensors on any door / window that has immediate access to pond / pool if in the back yard that turns on a light / triggers some sort of audible alarm.


    goldfish pond should still be setup like a koi pond. when you want to reduce overall maintenance on the pond itself. a bottom drain, skimmer, and some returns that create beneficial currents for the bottom drain/s.

    goldfish vs koi pond. allow you to have a smaller size pond in gallons, less gallons = smaller size filters, and smaller size pumps, other words less cash.

    go with external filtration, it costs a little more up front, but it can really reduce amount of chore work for the pond. due to most external filter setups are much more easier to clean. and it keeps you from having to get in to the pond to clean a filter. personally hate getting into a pond. due to once algae grows on liner, it is slipper than snot. and good chance i will fall and bust my rear or something else, if i am not extremely careful.

    having vertical side walls of pond. and then a good ledge were one can toss there leg up and over side, and roll out of pond can help. if you have slopped walls on pond. trying to crawl over slipper than snot liner with algae on it. can be dangerous. and some times it ends up being a belly crawl out. vs trying even think about standing up and getting out.

    if you have a rock edging on pond, concrete / mortar the rock edging together. so rocks stay firm and is safer to walk on, vs having a risk of a rock sliding out from under your foot.
    Pond and Construction Forum 101 good place for any first timers to the forum. for finding resources and general info.

    Ryan

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