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    Thread: KD's Pond Build 2012

    1. #1
      Koidaddy's Avatar
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      Question KD's Pond Build 2012

      Hello,

      if all goes right, I should be receiving a good chunk of change from this years income tax refund. If so, I plan on enlarging my pond. I plan on using the cinder block and rebar method. My pond dimensions would be in the neighborhood of 18' x 13' (maybe bigger) x 8' deep with two of the eight feet above ground for bench visits.

      I was in touch with my local hardware store today and learned that cinder block comes in three sizes, 4 x 8 x 16[ or 6 x 8 x 16 or 8 x 8 x 16. Logically I realize using the 16" block would be my best bet, but is there anyway I could use the narrow blocks instead? I'm not trying to cut corners, just don't want to spend extra money on over kill.

      Let me know people!

      KD aka Chris
      Have You Hugged Your Koi Today?


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    2. #2
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      Talking

      ... wow, just realized it's 2012... Should I be rebuilding if the end is near?
      Have You Hugged Your Koi Today?


    3. #3
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      The 4" thick block will not have adequate core sizes to allow for reinforcement, or even being able to get concrete down into the cores. The 6" would be difficult to get both the reinforcement and get concrete to go around that reinforcement so that the reinforcement becomes part of the structure. I would go with the 8". And btw, they also come in larger sizes, like 12" for high load situations. I would use the 12" between a pond and adjacent filter pit, due to the loads on a wall that is not supported by backfill.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koidaddy View Post
      ... wow, just realized it's 2012... Should I be rebuilding if the end is near?


      Best wishes with the rebuild. I think planning a pond or upgrades can be some of the most fun in this hobby.

      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koidaddy View Post
      ... wow, just realized it's 2012... Should I be rebuilding if the end is near?
      Looking forward to watching a new pond come together. Good luck on the build.
      The first step towards getting somewhere, is to decide you are not going to stay where you are.

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      Hope I get a good tax return improving on my filtration system, don't believe in luck but hope all goes well.
      I'm not complaining just explaining

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      The 4" thick block will not have adequate core sizes to allow for reinforcement, or even being able to get concrete down into the cores. The 6" would be difficult to get both the reinforcement and get concrete to go around that reinforcement so that the reinforcement becomes part of the structure. I would go with the 8". And btw, they also come in larger sizes, like 12" for high load situations. I would use the 12" between a pond and adjacent filter pit, due to the loads on a wall that is not supported by backfill.
      Duly noted - Thanks for the important tip.
      Have You Hugged Your Koi Today?


    8. #8
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      Are you going with a liner or sealing the block?
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    9. #9
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      Go with the 8 by 8 by 16 inch blocks. They are the most common size and probably the cheapest. Look at split face blocks for the top 3 rows that will be above grade. Also ask about 2nds. Where I live I can get 2nd's, mostly missed matched colors for 50 cents apiece.

      If you go with a flat bottom you can use a made to fit Drop in Liner. Or if you do a concrete bottom the Rubberiziet is a good owner paint on liner.

    10. #10
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      I'd also go with 8x8x16. Will be more available, maybe cheaper and much easier for rebaring and fill filling.

      Is this overbuilding...most likely...but it's a cheap peace of mind. Difference in block price is probaly minimal. You'lll still use the same amount of rebur. What extra cost you will have will be with more concrete for cell filling. Pretty insignificant when you look at the total cost of the pond.
      MN Mike

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    11. #11
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      It might be worth looking at insulating and installing some radiant tubing in the pond floor and walls. It would not cost a lot to do the tubing and have the option to hook it up in the future.
      Stacey

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Are you going with a liner or sealing the block?
      Paint on liner
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    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
      Go with the 8 by 8 by 16 inch blocks. They are the most common size and probably the cheapest. Look at split face blocks for the top 3 rows that will be above grade. Also ask about 2nds. Where I live I can get 2nd's, mostly missed matched colors for 50 cents apiece.

      If you go with a flat bottom you can use a made to fit Drop in Liner. Or if you do a concrete bottom the Rubberiziet is a good owner paint on liner.
      Thanks for the tip on "seconds" BTW, what exactly is a split faced block? Picture?
      Have You Hugged Your Koi Today?


    14. #14
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      Thanks people for the good advice... There's so much to consider!
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    15. #15
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      Split face blocks have a rough surface, and come in many different colors. Here's a few examples.
      Attached Images Attached Images     

    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
      Split face blocks have a rough surface, and come in many different colors. Here's a few examples.
      Steve, You're da man! You just saved me hours of nasty work by suggesting these dressed up cinder blocks!

      Thanks!
      I owe ya a beer or two!
      Chris
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    17. #17
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      18*13*8 (ouchers) the depth alone, but also the length and width.

      dimensions suggest a single centralized bottom drain. but it would mean a custom 6" bottom drain (DIY style), or a regular bottom drain with 2 4" outlet pipes on it (2nd 4" outlet, DIY style). in order to get the GPH up high enough, to encourage the currents to help keep the entire bottom clean.

      ======================
      with others 8x8x16 incher blocks,

      you can create a cheap "funnel" or "funnel shoot" out of some lumber / plywood. that just fits over top of the block, and you can extend some wood away from wall. to make it easier to use wheel barrow to dump concrete down into the "cores" of the block. but at amount you are asking for, it may very well be worth seeing about getting a concrete crew in there, to fill the holes of the concrete block.

      if this pond is going to be nice and rectangular with 90 degree corners. contact local masonry / concrete places. and see what they will charge. using there "forms" for a poured concrete walls. you may be forced into extra feet + or - to save costs. due to there forms only coming in say 2, 4, 6, 8 , 10 feet lengths. (depends on company and what they have on hand) but it could be a couple hundered bucks more than blocks. *shrugs* worth finding out.

      to note it, folks have added "xyprex" to concrete to make it water proof. for poured concrete ponds.
      Pond and Construction Forum 101 good place for any first timers to the forum. for finding resources and general info.

      Ryan

    18. #18
      birdman's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koidaddy View Post
      Steve, You're da man! You just saved me hours of nasty work by suggesting these dressed up cinder blocks!

      Thanks!
      I owe ya a beer or two!
      Chris
      Glad I could be of help.

    19. #19
      Koidaddy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by boggen View Post
      18*13*8 (ouchers) the depth alone, but also the length and width.

      dimensions suggest a single centralized bottom drain. but it would mean a custom 6" bottom drain (DIY style), or a regular bottom drain with 2 4" outlet pipes on it (2nd 4" outlet, DIY style). in order to get the GPH up high enough, to encourage the currents to help keep the entire bottom clean.

      ======================
      with others 8x8x16 incher blocks,

      you can create a cheap "funnel" or "funnel shoot" out of some lumber / plywood. that just fits over top of the block, and you can extend some wood away from wall. to make it easier to use wheel barrow to dump concrete down into the "cores" of the block. but at amount you are asking for, it may very well be worth seeing about getting a concrete crew in there, to fill the holes of the concrete block.

      if this pond is going to be nice and rectangular with 90 degree corners. contact local masonry / concrete places. and see what they will charge. using there "forms" for a poured concrete walls. you may be forced into extra feet + or - to save costs. due to there forms only coming in say 2, 4, 6, 8 , 10 feet lengths. (depends on company and what they have on hand) but it could be a couple hundered bucks more than blocks. *shrugs* worth finding out.

      to note it, folks have added "xyprex" to concrete to make it water proof. for poured concrete ponds.
      Thanks Ryan - I'll call a few places tomorrow.

      Also, I was thinking of two 4" bottom drains, each with it's own dedicated pump? The returns from each pump, after filtration, would feed four TPR's... What do you think?

      Last question (four now), How thick does concrete pad have to be for pond bottom, and can slab be on same level as footoing (poured as one large slab or do I need to excavated footing deeper than slab?

      I thought this would be easy, but I am realizing there are many things to consider.

      Chris
      Have You Hugged Your Koi Today?


    20. #20
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      Yes the pond bottom and footing can be all one pour. 4" for the bottom, 6 inches for the footing. With rebar. Place your TPR/GPRs like this, 2 blocks high off the bottom. You can do one center GPR or two side by side depending on how much you want to flow.
      If you make the bottom flat you can use a drop in liner if you want. A dished bottom would require a painted or sprayed on liner.
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