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  • Results 1 to 8 of 8

    Thread: Pond and construction forum 101

    1. #1
      boggen's Avatar
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      Pond and construction forum 101

      welcome to world wide koi club / koiphen!

      this place, is like a open school. were there are many folks that are teachers, teacher/students, students. the class room is normally your thread. in example of a thread title "new pond planning", "redoing my pond planning".

      normally, for you new folks 10 posts or less, you may get hounded with a lot of resource links, and not a lot of direct replies to your own questions. this is mainly due to of large amount of resources, tend to go further in depth, than what most of us could reply to you quickly and timely manor.

      think of this little transaction period (folks with less than 10 post or less), as "1st day" at school. were teachers go over structure of the class, and making sure everyone has there needed books and materials and the like. but instead of books and materials, its web links, and were to find info here on www.koiphen.com and www.worldwidekoiclub.org, and other.

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      normal things that end up getting covered/needed/asked from you are the following.

      • Length, width, depth, shape of pond.
      • what will be in the pond?
        • koi?
        • goldfish?
        • plants?

      • what is your extreme weather temps like?
        • hot
          • 110 for a couple weeks in summer?
          • 100 for a couple weeks in summer?
          • 100 plus 6 months of the year?

        • cold
          • -10 degrees for a couple weeks in winter?
          • in the teens only for a couple weeks in winter?


      • are you a diy (do it yourself) type of person? or are you mechanically inclined and need a professional to do the work for you?
      • we tend to rely on pictures and diagrams a few times through out a thread, both from you and us. the statement of "picture is worth a 1000 words" tends to hold true many times.
        • don't worry about how it looks. but suggest focusing on making sure it gets the idea over. and take it as working with "rough drafts" and not as final revision. example a 2 year old chicken scratch drawing, can come over better than a fully 3D complex design thing. keep it simple.
        • example of diagrams, might be,
          • taking a digital camera, and taking photo of your yard. then opening the picture in "paint" and drawing some lines on it.
          • drawing something on paper, and then scanning the picture into your computer then posting it on koiphen. ((suggest using markers. pen and pencil normally don't show up well, or less gone over a couple times))
          • drawing something on paper then taking your digital camera and taking a photo of your work on paper ((suggest using markers, pen and pencil don't show up to well, or less gone over a couple times))
          • using "microsoft paint" and drawing some generic shapes. p.s. mac computers have a generic paint program as well.
          • for you engineers, google sketchup might be worth while
          • microsoft word,excel, and other applications generally have some sort of generic flow charts and shapes you can draw with as well.



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      RESOURCES that normally get suggested that you go through...


      • sticky "start to finish pond projects" normally it is suggested to go through a few of them. so you can see how others have went about things, and allow you to get an idea of what you are getting yourself into. folks have really took the extra time to post pictures and give explanation as they went through there pond build.
      • look over DIY things for ponds, even if you are not a DIY (do it yourself) type of person, you will normally get myself pushing you to read through the DIY things, many times it is the only way to pickup on extra stuff that is needed.
        • that and, when i don't see folks going through DIY stuff, normally i end up seeing folks, doing the "complete pond redo" later down the road, because the didn't do there home work / research first.



      • sticky "Pond Plumbing Primer Version II ..... by Garrett"
        • more of an in depth guide in plumbing, and how to figure out head losses, and how to plumb things.


      individual specific resources about specific things.


      • all about bottom drains ((abbreviation BD))
        • why you want them, and what happens if you don't have them. how to install them.

      • why not to put rocks in your pond
        • this normally goes along with "wanting bottom drains"

      • Abbreviations
        • confused with abbreviations like BD, TPR, DO, GPR, and many other abbreviations, that you see in posts? this is were to find the general terminology of them.

      • how to post pictures on koiphen
        • general how to, it goes over resizing, using some different programs to edit a picture and like, and how to get pictures to show within your post.

      • free online graph paper
        • for those wanting grid lines.

      • using "microsoft paint"
        • i tend to use "paint" a lot in making diagrams, it is free and for most folks just drawing a simple line, can be figured out fairly quickly. this goes into more depth in using paint, and some tricks and tips in how to make better use of it.
        • along with some general info about making diagrams.

      • plumbing, head, gravity flow, system curve, etc...
        • this is a very old out dated thread of mine, most of the info still holds true. but like everything as i learn and things evolve stuff gets outdated. i normally only refer folks to look at the following.
        • some animated diagrams. of showing water flow by "gravity" see the last 3 diagrams in post #2 or (click here)
        • reading over posts 20 to 30, to figure out placement for bottom drains, TPRs, and like (do note GPR's are not labeled correctly) but should give a good idea over things.)


      www.worldwidekoiclub.org

      • pond building info
        • DIY filters and like
          • tons of diy filters, and i do tons.

        • plumbing
          • dealing with leaks, and figuring out fittings and like.

        • calculators
          • generic surface area and pond volume calculator
          • advance pipe sizing based on velocity of water
          • fish weight calculator based on length

        • more guides and how tos
        • and much more.


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      as your plan changes, and most likely folks plans do change once they get to koiphen. keep posting your changed / revised plan. i would suggest keeping your revised plans in a single thread. so that as both your questions and our questions to you get answered. folks can go back and re-read things. of what has been noted. and at same time get a better idea of were you are at in overall doings.

      do note: things can get harsh from time to time. as you/we work through your plan. other words, it can get frustrating and confusing. we all been there before and know how it is. some suggestions that might help us clue in on things might be...

      • if someone reply to ya, helped you out better than others or how they said things helped you better. then "quote" that folks reply in your reply to the given thread.
      • ask a few more questions about the same thing. and restate your question a little different.
      • if you are still confused or haven't gotten a questioned answered. type in "bump" and re-ask the question.
        • think of the word "bump" as a friendly way of saying "need some more help/attention"

      • many times, we end up getting 2 to 3 threads going at the same time covering same general thing. many times each of these 2 to 3 threads goes about going over the same thing in a different way. this normally allows folks to pick/choose there "class room" like thread that best suits them.
      • don't be afraid to ask something in someone else thread. i have seen a lot of times, were folks break off in almost little like study group threads on something. and everyone benefits from it.
      • don't be afraid to make a mistake or question something. we all make make mistakes, i know i do!

      remember this place is like an open school. don't be afraid to give your own statements, in trying to help someone else out. many times it is helping others, that you can gain a better grasp of things. or rather get some hands on experience. so what if you are saying same thing over that someone else already stated. if you were in a class and had homework / tests to do, the teacher would have to look over the same comments from everyone anyways, whats the difference here on the forum?

      remember there is a lot of folks here that are just like you from knowledge stand point about a pond, to budget restraints, to other.

      • ponds do cost cash, and there is a lot of info to take in. we have folks that get there pond and built in a couple months, to folks that get it down in half year, to folks that are on the 2 to 3 year plan.
      • normally for most DIY type of folks, it will take a few months to finish out everything. a lot of this is just seating down and learning and getting a plan down. the other is actually making things and digging and building the pond, and waiting on cash.
      • because the length of time it can take to build a pond. is alot of reason, why a lot of focus is placed on seating down now. and getting a plan down here in the forum.

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      some common questions that do get asked

      • we have a lot of manufacturers, dealers, vendors, that also use this forum and support WWKC, and koiphen. and many top level hobbyists as well. you can find there listings in the following locations.

      • many times, we get folks asking on were to by large tanks for DIY filters.
        • "square tex", also goes by "totes" some come in 270 gallon while others 330 gallons, check www.craiglist.com, (get the phone book out) contact your local food manufacture plants, places that work with dies and concrete coloring.
        • 55 gallon drums, (same as above)
        • for other
          • check out your local "agriculture" or farm stores in your area.
          • do a "google" search for "septic tank" normally this will bring a huge list of places that sell septic tanks, but more importantly once you get into these sites they also normally sell better tanks that can make diy filters with. ((trying to search for other terms has normally ended me in no were land. and searching for septic tanks normally takes me right to these websites.))





      WARNING, general rule of thumbs can be off!!!, they are generally used alot, as a quick easy statement, to help dumb things down, and get idea over easier. for most folks general rules of thumbs work. but not always, and there not for everyone. and the general rules of thumbs can be different from one person to the next person.

      general rules of thumbs

      • 10 % pond volume in filteration volume
      • 1/3 of total surface area of pond = surface area needed for fliteration
      • 55 gallon drum dedicated bio filter per 3000 gallons of pond ((assuming good pre mechanical and mechanical filteration is done before the bio filter))
      • gallons per koi (stocking level guide lines for newbies)
        • note, this is only stocking level, this has nothing to do with amount of filteration and type of filteration
        • 1000 gallon per koi, if ya looking to show fish, or have large females
        • 500 gallon per koi, good
        • 250 gallon per koi, is suggested max.

      • 3000 gallon min pond size for a pond with koi in it.
      • 3 feet is suggest min for depth of pond.
      • 6 feet radius is kept cleaned around a bottom drain flowing approx 3000 gallons per hour
      • 3.5 feet radius is kept cleaned around a bottom drain that is flowing approx 2000 gph
      • 10% of flow rate going into a settling chamber = suggested size of settling chamber. (example 3000 gph flowing into SC = 300 gallon tank needed.)
      • daily, or twice a week, or weekly cleanings of your filters and if need be your pond as well, ((semi yearly cleanouts only suggested for water gardens, IE only ponds with just plants and perhaps a couple goldfish in them))
      • when gravity flowing water between say pond and a filter, or between filter to filter.
        • 3000 gph in a 4" pipe will give you approx 1" draw down
        • 2000 gph in a 3" pipe will give you approx 1" draw down

      • a bottom drain and skimmer and returns, is a requirement in nearly every pond out there, in order to get in thought a self cleaning pond.
      • if it means extra work, that is what will generally get suggested to you.
      Pond and Construction Forum 101 good place for any first timers to the forum. for finding resources and general info.

      Ryan

    2. #2
      boggen's Avatar
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      normal path i take, when building a pond/helping someone

      1. get pond dimensions (length, width, depth) along with shape of pond. along with placement of waterfall.
        1. with this info we can figure out all the inlets and outlets on the pond (drains, skimmers, tprs, gprs, etc...)
        2. we can also figure out turn over rate, and figure out flow rates for all the inlets and outlets on the pond.
      2. the next step, is filtration.
        1. we can't really figure out what size of filters for Pre mechanical, mechanical, fines filtering, without knowing the flow rates.
        2. bio filtration, can also be figured out, but normally type of fish and amount of fish normally needs to be known to make an educated guess. for sizing bio filters.
      3. sizing pipe based on flow rates and if water is flowing by gravity or pressure.
      4. next step is making sure everything is correct. and sounds good.
      5. next step is building the pond
      6. next step is selecting a pump
        1. nearly all plumbing and filters should be installed. the reason for this is. on paper we might have everything down pat, but real world predicts, it never goes like plan for running all your plumbing. and because of this. head loss can change dramatically.
        2. since we don't know how all the plumbing will be ran till pond is built. we won't know head loss, or flow rates your system will handle. until it is built.
        3. once it is built then we can go through some calculations to figure out head loss and flow rates and properly size your pump for your system.
      Pond and Construction Forum 101 good place for any first timers to the forum. for finding resources and general info.

      Ryan

    3. #3
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      some other needed info. that generally gets asked is....

      =====================

      type of fish in the pond?
      length of fish?
      age of fish?

      all 3 (type, length,age) can help folks determined some basic things. and may raise certain caution flags or like. that might bring up more questions that we might ask you. or cause us to focus more on certain things. directly for ya. so as to make sure ya have things covered. it may seem silly and alot of extra work for some questions that you might think are simple to be asked. but nearly every pond is different from someones elses pond. that not taking in type,length,age of fish can cause assumptions that could lead others helping you astray. and in that giving you wrong info.

      =====================
      type of pond
      koi, goldfish, water garden, lilly, hybrid, quarantine tank (QT), rock bottom pond.

      everyone can differ some what in what they think what type of a pond is. just simply saying a koi pond. could mean a varity of things to different folks. and might suggest making suggestions or short description of the pond in your own words what a koi pond or what ever type of pond means to you. this will allow others to get more on same page as you.
      Pond and Construction Forum 101 good place for any first timers to the forum. for finding resources and general info.

      Ryan

    4. #4
      cindy's Avatar
      cindy is offline Moderator ~ WWKC Vice President ~
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      incredible
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


      K.O.I.

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      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...nd-Information

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...06#post2606106 Show thread

    5. #5
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      This should be a "sticky".
      Susie


    6. #6
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      really appreciate this sir! right to the point! thanks

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by fairlady View Post
      This should be a "sticky".
      I agree.
      Nick


    8. #8
      cindy's Avatar
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      bump
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


      K.O.I.

      Member: EIHIOICGI

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...nd-Information

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