• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 8 of 8

    Thread: Spawning injury + viral growth?

    1. #1
      webted is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2009
      Location
      Western Washington
      Posts
      817

      Spawning injury + viral growth?

      Hi:

      I just netted up my 2 year old Kohaku, which had a very rough week. Here's the background:

      The Kohaku spent the last year in quarantine/growout. Most of that with a Kujaku that was a long time member of the main herd.

      The kohaku was added in with the main herd on June 18th. There is a fish in that herd (not the Kujaku) that showed a waxy facial growth about 2 years ago. It disappeared when the water warmed, and I haven't seen it again. Temps have ranged from 64degF to 72degF.

      On July 5th or 6th, spawning wrecked havoc on the water parameters: NH3 = 0ppm, NO2- @ 0.5ppm, NO3- @ ~20ppm

      I salted to 0.12% and started water changes.

      July 8th NO2- back down to undetectable.

      Since then, back to the usual: 10% water changes every 2nd or 3rd day, NO3- around 5 - 10ppm, KH 3 - 4 drops (yes, I do this on purpose...). Lots of air (Sieve + Hakko 120), a mix of bead, upflow media filter and the very recent addition of a moving bed.

      This evening I saw the following two symptoms on this Kohaku

      #1 A localized, waxy, raised deposit on her head
      #2 Two bruises on her back (near the 'bridge' in beni plates)

      My hypothesis is a viral infection, spread by a latent, but frisky male, coupled with bruises acquired in spawning. The virus took hold because of the stress.

      I have fish in my indoor tank, one of which is getting at the 4 week point in quarantine. I'm planning on scraping the new addition and one of the canary fish, and if everything is kosher, adding the Kohaku in with them. This will give me the ability to heat the tank up (no heat outside, and it has been a VERY cold and wet winter in the PacNW). I'm thinking a strong salt dip before adding her might help in sloughing the damaged skin.

      Setting up another tank will be really tough right now, as I still only have limited use of my left hand as it recuperates from reconstructive surgery...

      I'm heartbroken because I really feel this is a show quality fish (her body is awesome), and I don't know if she'll ever heal up right.

      Any other suggestions or interpretations?

      Thanks,

      -t
      Attached Images Attached Images   

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    2. #2
      cindy's Avatar
      cindy is offline Administrator
      is Loving retirement
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Mt. Wash. KY - 7 miles outside Louisville
      Posts
      59,503
      Have you tried scraping with your fingernail to see if its soft? Why the low kh?

    3. #3
      webted is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2009
      Location
      Western Washington
      Posts
      817
      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      Have you tried scraping with your fingernail to see if its soft? Why the low kh?
      Hi Cindy:

      To be honest, at this point I'm trying not to touch it. My hope is that if it is an exogenous growth, it might be sloughed off without scarring. I'm afraid that scraping/scratching etc... might damage the underlying epithelium.

      As for the KH, I'm not trying to ignite a holy war here, it's just that I have water that is naturally similar to the soft water of Japan, and I prefer not to modify it. I am prepared to make the extra effort to maintain my slim buffering capacity through water changes, and I've been successful with this for a few years now.

      I have had a chance to speak with some knowledgeable people this morning. While this manifestation is unique looking, I have been told that fish moved from warm climates to cold climates occasionally display this kind of growth. Heat + salt baths was recommended, which was good to hear.

      We brought her inside earlier this evening, gave her a 2% (w/v) salt bath (<5 minutes) and got things started. I'll post a follow-up.

      Has anyone else seen this? I am much more inclined to view this as viral than fungal, but I posted this because I'd like to hear what others have seen.

      Other ideas? Please chime in.

      Thanks again,

      -t

    4. #4
      webted is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2009
      Location
      Western Washington
      Posts
      817
      Hi all:

      I thought I'd add a little update. I know I generally enjoy hearing stories like these.

      To recap:

      July 15th - facial growths on fish seen
      July 16th - netted up, ~2.0% (w/v) salt bath, moved to 72degF Q-tank
      July 20th - looking better (picture added)
      July 31st - looking good (last picture), another 2% salt bath, returned to main herd

      Thanks to everyone that offered advice or encouragement - I was pleased to see that she responded so well to a relatively minimalistic treatment.

      With regards,

      -t
      Attached Images Attached Images   

    5. #5
      premster's Avatar
      premster is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2006
      Location
      Ann Arbor
      Posts
      8,168
      I had a male that looked like that . so I dont think the spawning has anything to do with it . it used to be present in colder temps and gone when the summers came .
      Prem


    6. #6
      nmtsaki's Avatar
      nmtsaki is offline Moderator ~ WWKC Secretary
      is hanging in there, waiting for
      warmer weather
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      May 2007
      Location
      Oak Park, MI
      Posts
      17,433
      Perhaps the beginning of a fungal or bacterial infection that was caught early enough to be treated with the salt. Good job!







      Favorite Quotes:
      The greatest pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with him, and not only will he not scold you, but he will make a fool of himself, too. -- Samuel Butler.

      My little dog - a heartbeat at my feet. -- Edith Wharton.

      I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive. -- Gilda Radner

      Yesterday I was a dog. Today I'm a dog. Tomorrow I'll probably still be a dog. Sigh! There's so little hope for advancement. -- Snoopy

    7. #7
      wayne1's Avatar
      wayne1 is offline Supporting Member
      is Old boy
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      May 2011
      Location
      The Gower SOUTH WALES UK
      Posts
      1,384
      nice to see the fish is back to health ,salt is a good thing to have always to hand in the koi keepers box !

    8. #8
      Neli's Avatar
      Neli is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2011
      Location
      Zambia
      Posts
      3,089
      I heard also that fish can have "cold" and it is not so uncommon in colder weather. Recently saw people posting it on another forum.
      One thing I have learned from U is, dont rush into harsh treatments, but dont let it advance too much too.
      Click for Lusaka, Zambia Forecast

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •