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    Thread: 2 week old Koi Fry and Costia - what to do?

    1. #1
      jameskoi is offline Senior Member
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      2 week old Koi Fry and Costia - what to do?

      I'm pretty sure my 2 week old fry have costia.

      I looked at a recently dead or just died under the scope (i have a few dozen deads out of 2000+). I just noticed a larger than normal increase tonight so decided to look under the scope.

      Under the scope, what I saw is best described as a bunch of fast swimming non circular flat disc like critters (much like flat potato shaped) doing body rolls like an air plane. I don't see the tail but from the looks of youtube videos, that looks like it. They're everywhere.

      If this is costia... What can I do to safely treat my 130G tank? Increase temp to 87F or proform-c?

      Thank you all. I think I don't have much time to solve this one from what I read. It looks like the trouble just started. I have to go out now unfortunately, check back in a few hours.
      1500G basement pond; three DIY 55G barrel filters; metal halide coming soon; want another pond

      - orange Doitsu; death by ulcer
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    2. #2
      pearlharborday is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by jameskoi View Post
      I'm pretty sure my 2 week old fry have costia.

      I looked at a recently dead or just died under the scope (i have a few dozen deads out of 2000+). I just noticed a larger than normal increase tonight so decided to look under the scope.

      Under the scope, what I saw is best described as a bunch of fast swimming non circular flat disc like critters (much like flat potato shaped) doing body rolls like an air plane. I don't see the tail but from the looks of youtube videos, that looks like it. They're everywhere.

      If this is costia... What can I do to safely treat my 130G tank? Increase temp to 87F or proform-c?

      Thank you all. I think I don't have much time to solve this one from what I read. It looks like the trouble just started. I have to go out now unfortunately, check back in a few hours.
      costia looks like comma's swimming in a corkscrew pattern,,,,,,,,,,,tetrahymena is tear drop potato shaped parasite that kinda does back flips...........

      no matter what,,,with fry you have little options,,,the gills in fry aren't fully developed.....formalin and malachite green can do more damage than good.........salt would be your safest bet...........and hope that what ever is happening isn't salt resistant

    3. #3
      jameskoi is offline Senior Member
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      Hmm.. what is a good salt level for fry? Thanks
      1500G basement pond; three DIY 55G barrel filters; metal halide coming soon; want another pond

      - orange Doitsu; death by ulcer
      !

    4. #4
      pearlharborday is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by jameskoi View Post
      Hmm.. what is a good salt level for fry? Thanks
      .3 or so max,,,unfortunatley their swim bladder isn't fully developed either

    5. #5
      jameskoi is offline Senior Member
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      Yup, I'm 99% sure costia. It looks just like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to0Ih...eature=related

      I"ll shoot for .2 and see how it goes...
      1500G basement pond; three DIY 55G barrel filters; metal halide coming soon; want another pond

      - orange Doitsu; death by ulcer
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    6. #6
      cindy's Avatar
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      salt and heat
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


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    7. #7
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      How do you think they were exposed to costia? did you have it in your main pond?


      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."






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    8. #8
      jameskoi is offline Senior Member
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      My main pond (1500G basement pond) has zero issues for 2 years. All koi in there show zero signs of problems. It must have originated from there. You see, I moved two smaller koi into 130G. When I say small, about 14-15" in size. They spawned the next day and eggs covered the bottom of tank and in layers too. I was sceptical at first but 1 day later, I saw the shiny eyes and 99% were still amber clear. So I decided to raise them.

      This morning, even more dropping like flies. It is 100% costia. I was able to look at another 1/2 dead fry and saw the comma shape that everyone talks about. Thanks to the youtube videos showing swimming behaviour, it validates it. A scope without knowledge is useless. A scope with internet is priceless. Tons and tons of costia. Salt appears to be useless since it's even worse this morning and I'm not going to bother with heat. I decided that they're better off getting meds. 8 hours in and they're doing fine besides the initial 100+ die off within the first 15 mins. Wasn't sure if it's b/c of the water change right before the profrom-c or both. Fortunately, 90% were skinny or haven't eaten so they were ready to die anyway I guess.

      The rest are doing fine now and much less dropping like flies. I will find out for sure by the time the weekend is over if I managed to avoid a total disaster which happened all of a sudden.
      1500G basement pond; three DIY 55G barrel filters; metal halide coming soon; want another pond

      - orange Doitsu; death by ulcer
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    9. #9
      pearlharborday is offline Senior Member
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      well hopefuuly the proform doesn't give them issues later on in their gill development..........................now you have your pond to deal with......better treat now bfore it starts grabbing hold of the adults

    10. #10
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      I am confused. You've brought in no new fish for 2 years and the babies from a recent spawn of the same fish have costia? Pearl, does costia live at low levels on koi normally? If you definitely have costia, yeah, I am with Pearl and would concentrate on getting the adults treated ASAP. I was not aware that costia existed normally on fish.

    11. #11
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      would the costia be swimming freely? I would think they would be on the fish? Are they on the fry or just around them? Fry can die off suddenly from many reasons...trust me I know. What are you feeding them and what temp were they at when this all started?
      Watch your thoughts; they become words.
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    12. #12
      pearlharborday is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by majederr View Post
      I am confused. You've brought in no new fish for 2 years and the babies from a recent spawn of the same fish have costia? Pearl, does costia live at low levels on koi normally? If you definitely have costia, yeah, I am with Pearl and would concentrate on getting the adults treated ASAP. I was not aware that costia existed normally on fish.
      costia is a funny bug....it is flagellate protazaon parasite......it moves by Flagella,,,basically a tail....that is why it looks like a comma {tad pole} is you wish...............there are many strains of costia and in pretty clean ,well filtered and mantained systems......the parasite can live in low levels ,without the fish showing many signs,,besides a flash here and there.................but when you get costia in a crowded,,un established system , water quality degrades{like a spawn } ,injury etc....the paratsie can take hold extremly quick...........of course on fry it would take a huge number of them to see mortality rates.....they really have no immune sytem .............

      but to answer the question alot of parasites can live in low levels on fish normally..yes they can..........that is why proper filtration and a cleaning schedule is so important.....dirty filters,and crud on the bottom are perfect breeding grounds

    13. #13
      jameskoi is offline Senior Member
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      Yes, I can only assume there is costia in my main pond... but I will not treat it... until I spot a problem.... In the beginning when my pond was brand new (1500G basement pond, no outdoor), I stocked it up before the cycling was completed. About 30 5-10" koi. They all grew up to 15-22". Most are 18+". First few months suffered major battle of parasites, ulcers and flukes. I finally scored bottle of baytril and saved one of my prized koi. Long story short, after that hard battle things settled down to the way things are now as in zero problems. Last time I scraped and scoped (late last year), can't even find a single fluke on them. Koi doing perfectly fine in the pond. I'm not treating my biggies unless I see a problem. All I know is, parasites are here to stay... It's always around no matter what we do. When the koi are healthy and filtration good, there are no problems but the bugs lurk somewhere and are always prepared to strike when there is a chance to and the fry inherited this problem.

      As for the 130G tank... Yes, I just moved two koi from my pond into the 130G and they decided to spawn the next day. No new fish introduced since the beginning and that was 2 years ago. Water temp always 68F winter; 70F summer.

      We'll see how it goes... no pain no gain. lol
      Last edited by jameskoi; 04-23-2011 at 12:03 AM.
      1500G basement pond; three DIY 55G barrel filters; metal halide coming soon; want another pond

      - orange Doitsu; death by ulcer
      !

    14. #14
      jameskoi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Luck View Post
      would the costia be swimming freely? I would think they would be on the fish? Are they on the fry or just around them? Fry can die off suddenly from many reasons...trust me I know. What are you feeding them and what temp were they at when this all started?
      My 130G fry tank when eggs were laid was 71F... When they hatched I decided to warm it up to 74F for more growth. I unplugged heater at the same time when I discovered costia (not due to costia, just decided to do it b/c i didn't notice big enough growth difference with 60G fry tank with no heater).

      I fed them brine shrimp in the beginning in switched to some sort of high protein fry food that contains krill. It's too fine now so I'm feeding it crushed koi pellets, flakes and some plankton as of yesterday. Right now fry is 15 days old.
      1500G basement pond; three DIY 55G barrel filters; metal halide coming soon; want another pond

      - orange Doitsu; death by ulcer
      !

    15. #15
      Pond,James_Pond's Avatar
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      Good luck with your fry growout. Can you attach a picture? I'd enjoy seeing a herd of babies looking around in a tank.

      steve

    16. #16
      jameskoi is offline Senior Member
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      Update: so far so good I think... Still losing a whole bunch but not as crazy as first 24hrs after discovery. Now on 2nd day with proform-C with 50% water change. If they get damaged from proform-c, oh well...

      I'll do something even better instead of pictures. Watch the video at 720p to see decent detail. I'll do another video later.. maybe tomorrow..

      Day 7 video...

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmzs3...el_video_title
      1500G basement pond; three DIY 55G barrel filters; metal halide coming soon; want another pond

      - orange Doitsu; death by ulcer
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    17. #17
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      Very cool. Wishing them well through the treatment.

      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

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    18. #18
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      Wow...thats alot of fry.


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    19. #19
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    20. #20
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      Wishing you all the best. Well you learn something new here everyday. I was never aware that koi lived with low levels of costia present. Always thought that one was deadly even in good situations. Lots of babies left to keep you busy.

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