Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: TPR placement

  1. #1
    moodymike's Avatar
    moodymike is offline
    moodymike
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,312

    TPR placement

    Here is a little diagram of my pond. It is about 15ft long, 8 wide. There is one 4"ABD, and a skimmer as shown. Water return is thru a waterfall in the deep end. There is a slight grade from the shallow (skimmer) end to the deeper end. Deep end approx 4', shallow apprx 3'6 deep. If I was to add 2 trps, where would the best spot be? thanks
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #2
    Pond,James_Pond's Avatar
    Pond,James_Pond is offline
    Pond,James_Pond
    ________Let 'em eat Manda Fu!!______
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Seattle'ish
    Posts
    3,838
    Okay, you asked if you could only do 2. Everybody else is going to say move the skimmer and waterfall and you need 3 and so on....But, if you can only add 2, then I'd say the best placement would be one at each end, pointing across that end.

    The tpr at the skimmer end should point either up or down (in your top drawing) depending on the prevalent winds. And this is going to be tricky to determine. With only one tpr at that end, there will be a minor rotational current in that "lobe" of the pond. The tpr will keep the area under the skimmer clean, and also induce current that will find the opposite wall and start to follow it around.

    The tpr at the waterfall end could either be pointing in the same direction or opposite. This depends on how much flow is coming out and how the two currents effect each other. This is really arm chair quarterbacking here. The current will either be the entire pond rotating as a unit, or two halfs (lobes) counter rotating.

    The problem with a simple single current whole pond rotation is the wide spots at each end. There will be 2 places on the pond bottom, one at each end, where junk will tend to collect in a dead eddy area.

    steve

    Maybe the current would look like this with only 2 tpr's pointing in the same direction. The purple arrows would be the maybe part. These two (red) opposing currents may just cause a confusion and boil around and not go anywhere.

    Name:  maybe1.JPG
Views: 354
Size:  22.1 KB

    Here's the "one whole pond circle flow" idea. The brown stuff is debris that just sits there with no real current to move it one way or the other.

    Name:  maybe2.JPG
Views: 338
Size:  26.3 KB
    Last edited by Pond,James_Pond; 01-10-2011 at 03:27 PM. Reason: add crappy picture

  3. #3
    moodymike's Avatar
    moodymike is offline
    moodymike
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,312
    Thanks for the reply, I am new to the use of tps, so advice is appreciated. I am open to adding more than 2 if thats what it takes. The skimmer and ariated bottom drain are set, so cant be moved, and the waterfall has to go somewhere near to what was shown. If it is really necessary, I could dig the incline flat, and add another bottor drain, but I would have to order a larger liner as well. I dont want get this thing all together and wish I would have done it different ,kinda like where I put my skimmer :/ Hoping someone has had experience with this shape, and if one bottom brain worked out....
    thanks

  4. #4
    Norm Walsh's Avatar
    Norm Walsh is online now
    Norm Walsh
    is looking at the future of ponding
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA.
    Posts
    4,210
    Any additional info on pump, filters....etc


    I love a good red.
    Norm

    "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." (A.E.)
    "Free yourself from the rigid conduct of tradition and open yourself to the new forms of probability."
    Hans Bender


  5. #5
    moodymike's Avatar
    moodymike is offline
    moodymike
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,312
    Pond shoud be in the 2500 gal area, filter is a Nexus 210 gravity fed from abd and skimmer, uv light inline, I have a W.Lim wave 1/15 hp (3000gph) I was planning on using to feed the waterfall.

  6. #6
    montwila's Avatar
    montwila is offline
    montwila
    is trying to build a green house.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Auburn, WA.
    Posts
    1,547
    Hi Mike?

    Just some other things folks might like to know here. Have you metered your pond when you filled it? As I am in the same ball park and mine metered at 3870 US Gallons. So 2500 might be short?

    Also how high is the intended water fall and where is the Nexus in relation to the water fall? Above pond, in a filter pit?

    This should be a fun thread to watch.

    Good luck, Monte

  7. #7
    moodymike's Avatar
    moodymike is offline
    moodymike
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,312
    Hello Monte, and all others
    I have not metered the water, pond is still under construction. I wanted to get input on the tpr before I went any further. My pond is semi raised, 2 feet above ground, the rest underground. So the nexus will end up being in a pit in order to keep the water level even with that of the pond (gravity fed system). The waterfall will only be a few feet at most above water level. The nexus will be about 6 feet away from the waterfall, so the pump will only have to pump approx 6 horizontal feet and 5-6 vertical feet for the waterfall.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  8. #8
    Norm Walsh's Avatar
    Norm Walsh is online now
    Norm Walsh
    is looking at the future of ponding
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA.
    Posts
    4,210
    Hey Mike,

    Welcome to KP.

    My rough estimate is about 3350gals. In your calculation, the vertical lift is only what your pushing the water above pond level so only a couple feet, your pipe runs are very short so they won't be much at all.

    Have you purchased you equipment yet? If not you might consider bumping up to a 310 and a slightly larger pump so that you'll have enough to power both the waterfall and the needed TPR's

    Were in CA. are you?


    I love a good red.
    Norm

    "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." (A.E.)
    "Free yourself from the rigid conduct of tradition and open yourself to the new forms of probability."
    Hans Bender


  9. #9
    moodymike's Avatar
    moodymike is offline
    moodymike
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,312
    I am in the San Fernando Valley, Southern Calif.
    I have most everything purchased, I barely could afford the 210, those dang things are expensive!!!!
    My plans changed, and instead of upgrading a smaller pond, I built this larger one, so I know I will have to change
    a few more things around.
    Is it possible to have the tprs and waterfall all valved, and most of the time limit the water to the waterfall so a majority
    will go through the tprs?

  10. #10
    Norm Walsh's Avatar
    Norm Walsh is online now
    Norm Walsh
    is looking at the future of ponding
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA.
    Posts
    4,210
    Quote Originally Posted by moodymike View Post
    I am in the San Fernando Valley, Southern Calif.
    I have most everything purchased, I barely could afford the 210, those dang things are expensive!!!! Ya but they work pretty dang good too My plans changed, and instead of upgrading a smaller pond, I built this larger one, so I know I will have to change
    a few more things around. Plans often change in pond building.Is it possible to have the tprs and waterfall all valved, and most of the time limit the water to the waterfall so a majority
    will go through the tprs? Yes they can, Have you bought the pump yet?
    What skimmer are you using?
    Last edited by Norm Walsh; 01-11-2011 at 10:38 AM.


    I love a good red.
    Norm

    "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." (A.E.)
    "Free yourself from the rigid conduct of tradition and open yourself to the new forms of probability."
    Hans Bender


  11. #11
    moodymike's Avatar
    moodymike is offline
    moodymike
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,312
    I think you guys are right, after taking some better measurements, it seems like I will be up around the 3200-3300 gallon area. I purchased the pump already, and was hoping to get away with it as it is very energy efficient, but worst case senario, I can return it for a larger one. Approx what gph does eack tpr require? Adding tprs is a pain, as I have to bore the wall, but if it will make a huge difference, I am willing to do the work. I just dont know in this application, with the shape of the pond, and the placement of the waterfall and skimmer, how much of a difference it will really make.

    I am running a Savio compact skimmer, modified for better flow, as I am not runnig the uv in it, bulkhead at the bottom for a 3" line. Nexus 210 will be gravity fed, 3" line from skimmer, 4" line from bottom drain, both valved to control the flow from each.

  12. #12
    Pond,James_Pond's Avatar
    Pond,James_Pond is offline
    Pond,James_Pond
    ________Let 'em eat Manda Fu!!______
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Seattle'ish
    Posts
    3,838
    Here's another idea, Mike. Since there is only one bottom drain, then the trick is to get all the stuff going that direction. A stream flow might kinda work, but I'm not sure there's enough flow for it to really happen. And, the area under the waterfall and to the sides of the BD probably would get accumulation of debris. So how 'bout this? Tpr 1 pointing across the pool at about 500 gph. Tpr 2 pointing down the slope at about 500gph. Now, tpr 3 is pointing down the slope, but running at about 1000gph. This would create a circular flow around the BD (in theory).
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  13. #13
    moodymike's Avatar
    moodymike is offline
    moodymike
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,312
    The air from the bottom drain should create a natural flow around the bottom drain, (I hope). Is it possible to add 2 tprs as shown angled down to push debris down the slope towards the bottom drain, as the skimmer pulls in water near the top?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  14. #14
    Pond,James_Pond's Avatar
    Pond,James_Pond is offline
    Pond,James_Pond
    ________Let 'em eat Manda Fu!!______
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Seattle'ish
    Posts
    3,838
    What we've found with actual testing, is without the circular tpr flow, (and fishy swishy tail movement) the bottom drain aeration will really only pull debris from about a foot away. It really requires the system approach to keep a pond bottom clean.

    In the diagram above, the only real clean places on the pond bottom will be directly in the path of the tprs and then a circle close to (about a 3 foot circle) around the bottom drain.

    steve

  15. #15
    Norm Walsh's Avatar
    Norm Walsh is online now
    Norm Walsh
    is looking at the future of ponding
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA.
    Posts
    4,210
    Mike, working with what you have, except the pump, here's what I would suggest.

    BD to Nexus to Wave 1/8th pump to a return manifold, fill the skimmer with BactiTwist then tie it into the pump "after" the Nexus.

    Your idea of the " modified river flow" style will work fine, I just think your going to need a little more pump to run both the TPR's and the waterfall. Additionally though, I would suggest four TPR's, two true TPR's (angled) on the outside and two SPR's (straight pond return) in the middle.
    Last edited by Norm Walsh; 01-11-2011 at 12:46 PM.


    I love a good red.
    Norm

    "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." (A.E.)
    "Free yourself from the rigid conduct of tradition and open yourself to the new forms of probability."
    Hans Bender


  16. #16
    moodymike's Avatar
    moodymike is offline
    moodymike
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,312
    I dont have a problem upgrading the pump. Why would you tie the skimmer in after the nexus instead of running the water through it?

  17. #17
    Norm Walsh's Avatar
    Norm Walsh is online now
    Norm Walsh
    is looking at the future of ponding
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA.
    Posts
    4,210
    The max flow rate for the 210 is 2640gph. With your set up even the 1/15th would be to much pump, BUT, not enough to power both the WF and the returns. By upsizing the pump you'll have enough flow for both. By bypassing the Nexus on the skimmer circuit you can get the max flow (2640gph) through the BD and the remaining 1300gph or so will come from the skimmer. In other words, if you run both BD & skimmer through the Nexus you limit the flow to the Nexus max.


    I love a good red.
    Norm

    "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." (A.E.)
    "Free yourself from the rigid conduct of tradition and open yourself to the new forms of probability."
    Hans Bender


  18. #18
    moodymike's Avatar
    moodymike is offline
    moodymike
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,312
    Got it, I didnt realise the flow through the 210 was 2640, I was reading the flow on the easy pod was 2640 gph, so I assumed the 210 had to be higher because of the larger size.
    Now from an energy saving aspect, would it make sense to have 2 seperate circuits? One bd to nexus to 1/15 pump to uv to pond via tpr's, running all the time (with a small bypass if needed).
    2nd circuirt, skimmer to a second 1/15 pump, to waterfall, only ran as needed..
    Or do you think its better to get one larger pump to run everything.
    The 1/15 pumps pull 143 watts(3000 gph), the 1/8 pull 233w(3960gph).
    SO if you went with 2 circuits, both pumps were runining, you would burn more energy, but get a lot more flow..
    (will a 3"bulkhead gravity feed skimmer feed 3000gph?)
    It would only be cheaper if I was able to shut the skimmer/waterfall circuit off at night, or when not needed,
    thoughts?

  19. #19
    Pond,James_Pond's Avatar
    Pond,James_Pond is offline
    Pond,James_Pond
    ________Let 'em eat Manda Fu!!______
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Seattle'ish
    Posts
    3,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrmnkg View Post
    Your idea of the " modified river flow" style will work fine... ...Additionally though, I would suggest four TPR's, two true TPR's (angled) on the outside and two SPR's (straight pond return) in the middle.

    Something like this?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  20. #20
    Pond,James_Pond's Avatar
    Pond,James_Pond is offline
    Pond,James_Pond
    ________Let 'em eat Manda Fu!!______
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Seattle'ish
    Posts
    3,838
    Or like this?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •