• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 2 of 36 FirstFirst 1234512 ... LastLast
    Results 21 to 40 of 712

    Thread: CYPHER's New Pond Build...

    1. #21
      Nightstorm's Avatar
      Nightstorm is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Location
      Fairfax, VA
      Posts
      829
      I don't understand this "step down filter" theory. Maybe because it's late, but it seems to me, if the pump ever stops (power outage, clog, anything), then the pond will be drained by several feet. The water level will rise in the sieve, which will massively overflow the Nexus. I apologize if this has already been addressed in subsequent posts, but I couldn't find it



      -- Chris

      Nightstorm's Pond Build

      "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." -- Hubert H. Humphrey

      "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change" - C. Darwin



      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    2. #22
      MikeS's Avatar
      MikeS is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Location
      Jonesborough Tennessee, United States
      Posts
      2,664
      The sieve's weir would stop the flow.
      Mike & Sharon Shaw
      Jonesborough TN

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=437164

    3. #23
      Bill D.'s Avatar
      Bill D. is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2004
      Location
      Upland, So. Calif.
      Posts
      651
      Precisely…
      The drawing on the previous page shows the water levels in the Cetus and Nexus with the pump off. When you turn on the pump, the level in the Nexus will drop, which in turn causes the level in the Cetus to drop as well. Since the float in the lower portion of the Cetus rides on the water level in the reservoir, it then drops relative the flow amount through the unit. The top of the Cetus has a “weir” which is attached to the float, and so when it drops , the weir level will be below the surface level of the pond. Water then of course flows through from the bottom drains to make up the difference. When you turn off the pump (or during a power outage), the opposite happens all down the line… all the levels rise which causes the weir to float above the surface level of the pond, thus preventing any potential overflow condition.

    4. #24
      Pond James_Pond's Avatar
      Pond James_Pond is offline Senior Member
      is Let 'em eat Manda Foo!
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      Seattle'ish
      Posts
      4,347
      The Nexus has a lid?

    5. #25
      Bill D.'s Avatar
      Bill D. is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2004
      Location
      Upland, So. Calif.
      Posts
      651
      The Nexus has a lid?
      Of course! It is, however, optional as some customers build a deck over the Nexus, and so don't want or need the lid.


    6. #26
      Pond James_Pond's Avatar
      Pond James_Pond is offline Senior Member
      is Let 'em eat Manda Foo!
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      Seattle'ish
      Posts
      4,347
      And the lid is water tight? So it can't over flow?



      Oh, I"m getting it now. The cetus doesn't run like a settleing chamber. It doesn't fill up. There's not much water in the bottom of the cetus when it closes the weir. As long as the nexus is above this "shut off" level, the nexus won't flood. I get it.

      steve
      Last edited by Pond James_Pond; 11-15-2010 at 03:40 PM.

    7. #27
      mtsklar is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      Location
      Hudson, WI
      Posts
      1,866
      No it's just a cover to keep leaves and bugs out...

    8. #28
      Nightstorm's Avatar
      Nightstorm is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Location
      Fairfax, VA
      Posts
      829
      So, there's a check valve between the pump and the pond to prevent water from rushing back into the Nexus when the pump is out?

      Doesn't this create a significant amount of force acting against the pump, since the entire pond is a couple of feet higher then the Nexus, from which the pump is drawing?



      -- Chris

      Nightstorm's Pond Build

      "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." -- Hubert H. Humphrey

      "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change" - C. Darwin



    9. #29
      Zac Penn is offline Supporting Member
      is the owner of Deepwater Koi
      Innovations
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      Jacksonville, Fl
      Posts
      4,478
      This also could be a problem if the check valve doesn't seal properly. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing like this.
      Zac Penn.... Please sign-up for our MAILING LIST HERE
      904-294-2231
      Zac@DeepwaterKoi.com
      www.DeepwaterKoi.com


    10. #30
      mtsklar is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      Location
      Hudson, WI
      Posts
      1,866
      I guess if you switched the nexus out for a pressurized filter then this would not be an issue.

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    11. #31
      Zac Penn is offline Supporting Member
      is the owner of Deepwater Koi
      Innovations
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      Jacksonville, Fl
      Posts
      4,478
      Quote Originally Posted by mtsklar View Post
      I guess if you switched the nexus out for a pressurized filter then this would not be an issue.
      Or use one of my low head shower filters and forget about the nexus all together. You would then have to use one of my gravity fed all in one filters to remove the large debris with the sieve, then fine material with the static media pack, but that filter would be no larger than a Cetus unit, and handle more water flow.
      Zac Penn.... Please sign-up for our MAILING LIST HERE
      904-294-2231
      Zac@DeepwaterKoi.com
      www.DeepwaterKoi.com


    12. #32
      MikeS's Avatar
      MikeS is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Location
      Jonesborough Tennessee, United States
      Posts
      2,664
      Quote Originally Posted by Pond,James_Pond View Post
      And the lid is water tight? So it can't over flow?



      Oh, I"m getting it now. The cetus doesn't run like a settleing chamber. It doesn't fill up. There's not much water in the bottom of the cetus when it closes the weir. As long as the nexus is above this "shut off" level, the nexus won't flood. I get it.

      steve
      No but the current design of the Nexus has a bypass to prevent overflow And yes the Cetus simply stops flowing water when the pumps are shut down, if properly installed.
      Last edited by MikeS; 11-15-2010 at 07:19 PM.
      Mike & Sharon Shaw
      Jonesborough TN

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=437164

    13. #33
      CYPHER's Avatar
      CYPHER is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Location
      Washington
      Posts
      378

      Keep 'em comin'!!!

      Thank you all for your comments and suggestions so far. I welcome them, as I hope to make fewer (or ideally no) mistakes than I would if doing it on my own. Please keep them coming!!! My contractor is a pool builder that has done several koi ponds, but I don't believe for a second that he is a koi pond expert. For example, he wanted to use 3" line with 3 pool bottom drains, all tied into one line, and was only going to use 1 1/2" line for the return lines. I had to stand strong and buy my own 4" Rhino drains, as well as the 4" drain lines and 2" returns. Had I been really smart, I would have increased the return lines to either 3" or 4", but it is too late now.

      Thank you, Bill, for explaining the step-down theory on the dual-gravity Cetus/Nexus combo. I don't know if anyone has actually done it this way before, but I intend it to be a success, and hopefully others can implement it in their design in the future. The nice thing about it is that by utilizing the step-down approach, I can avoid the balance pipe and the required secondary pump...thus saving a bit on energy costs. As far as the check valve question goes, I plan to either use redundant check valves, in case one fails, or I will modify my return line from the Nexus to be the water feature return. I am still working through the calculations to see if this is a viable option.

      As I stated previously, I am about a week behind in posting pics of the construction so far. I will try to get caught up today. Please let me know if things catch your eye so that I can avert any disasters. If you have suggestions or modifications that I should consider before the next step occurs, let me know right away. Okay...on to some photos.

    14. #34
      CYPHER's Avatar
      CYPHER is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Location
      Washington
      Posts
      378

      Day #2: The Dig...

      The digging begins...

      Pay no attention to the landscaping...we plan on making many changes...it will just likely take a few years to do so. All a process...

      Name:  P1000924.jpg
Views: 1391
Size:  127.3 KB

      Name:  P1000925.jpg
Views: 1401
Size:  128.2 KB

      Name:  P1000926.jpg
Views: 1409
Size:  157.9 KB

      Name:  P1000927.jpg
Views: 1394
Size:  138.3 KB

      Name:  P1000930.jpg
Views: 1407
Size:  123.6 KB

    15. #35
      mtsklar is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      Location
      Hudson, WI
      Posts
      1,866
      Have you considered raising the nexus to water line and going pump fed? I think the issue that nightstorm raised about a possible back siphon through the pump during a power outage is a real concern.

      Matt Sklar

    16. #36
      CYPHER's Avatar
      CYPHER is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Location
      Washington
      Posts
      378

      Day #2: The Dig...continues...

      Name:  P1000931.jpg
Views: 1399
Size:  136.4 KB

      Name:  P1000932.jpg
Views: 1385
Size:  120.9 KB

      Name:  P1000933.jpg
Views: 1392
Size:  148.6 KB

      Name:  P1000934.jpg
Views: 1384
Size:  128.6 KB

      Name:  P1000938.jpg
Views: 1425
Size:  136.0 KB

    17. #37
      CYPHER's Avatar
      CYPHER is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Location
      Washington
      Posts
      378
      Quote Originally Posted by mtsklar View Post
      Have you considered raising the nexus to water line and going pump fed? I think the issue that nightstorm raised about a possible back siphon through the pump during a power outage is a real concern.

      Matt Sklar
      Matt,

      I originally was thinking that I would have to do it that way if I wanted to use a Nexus and a Cetus. However, if I did that, a true pump-fed Nexus would have to be entirely above pond water level, and then it would gravity feed back into the pond. Given my landscape, the only place I could put the Nexus in that scenario would be right in the island, right next to the pond. Although I will eventually have vegetation/landscaping in the remainder of the island, I think that the size of the Nexus would make it very difficult to hide, and it would very much be an eyesore. I want the main elevated feature of the island to be the basalt column water feature, not a Nexus with grasses and leaves around it. The problem is that the site makes it very difficult to hide equipment, so I am trying to minimize the impact by going remote. The problem with going remote is the elevation change. Unless I run 200' of pipe and put it way over behind the arborvitae (to get it up to pond level), I am kind of stuck.

      The other option would be to raise the Nexus such that the water level inside the Nexus is equal to the water level of the pond. This is the gravity-fed Nexus, and if utilizing a Cetus, this would then require that I run the dual-gravity setup, with a balance pipe and a secondary pump. Based on where I have the equipment pad, I would have to create a large concrete platform on the other side of the retaining wall in order to raise the Nexus that high. It could not be well hidden, either, as it would be raised up above the level of the driveway about 18" and it would appear to be floating on the other side of the retaining wall. If I had to go that route, I suspect it would make more sense to dig a vault inside the island to have the Cetus and Nexus in...closer to the pond. However, in creating a vault, I would also have to put in a sump drain/pump as well (not an issue on the other side of the retaining wall). In this scenario, I would be using two additional pumps. I don't really see any other way to do it. If you do, please let me know.

      Do you think that if I keep with my current plan and utilize a redundant check valve setup (two check-valves in series) that a power-outage-induced back siphon would really be a big concern?

      Thanks!

    18. #38
      mtsklar is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      Location
      Hudson, WI
      Posts
      1,866
      First of all thank you for keeping us up to date on the construction with great photos!

      A double check valve circuit could work....total worst case you swap the filter for a pressure filter.

      I put all my filtration underground so I understand ...

      Matt

    19. #39
      CYPHER's Avatar
      CYPHER is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Location
      Washington
      Posts
      378

      Day #2: More digging...

      Name:  P1000939.jpg
Views: 1356
Size:  135.0 KB

      Name:  P1000941.jpg
Views: 1379
Size:  107.2 KB

      Name:  P1000944.jpg
Views: 1352
Size:  135.1 KB

      Name:  P1000948.jpg
Views: 1375
Size:  171.8 KB

      This was where they were going to stop digging. The original design they presented had sloped sidewalls, but they did not appear this sloped. I was not very happy with the contour along the driveway wall, and decided to pay extra to have most of the additional dirt removed and have near vertical sidewalls. They quoted an additional $5K for the extra excavation, extra concrete it would require, and extra rebar.

      I agreed at the time, because I wanted to have more pond volume and more vertical sidewalls, and didn't want to regret it later. The price quote seemed really steep, though, but I didn't want to get in an argument. However, in looking at it now, I can't see that it would cost that much more in materials for the extra steel and concrete...not even close.

      The excavation time was about an additional 30 minutes to remove the rest of the dirt. I know there will be some built in additional labor time for creating the bigger vessel (laying rebar, shooting shotcrete, etc...). I plan on doing some math, coming up with the exact volume change and discussing the quoted cost vs. the actual cost of the "addition" before I make my final payment. Am I wrong in doing this? Look at the these photos, and the final upcoming photos of the finished dig and let me know what you would do. I think I got vastly overcharged for the additional volume. That curved wall is about 30' long, and it is a 6' depth. Your thoughts? Would you attempt to renegotiate if the math bore it out to do so?

      Name:  P1000949.jpg
Views: 1378
Size:  160.5 KB

    20. #40
      CYPHER's Avatar
      CYPHER is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Location
      Washington
      Posts
      378
      Quote Originally Posted by mtsklar View Post
      First of all thank you for keeping us up to date on the construction with great photos!

      A double check valve circuit could work....total worst case you swap the filter for a pressure filter.

      I put all my filtration underground so I understand ...

      Matt
      I am glad people are interested. It really helps to be able to bounce ideas off the experts, and to have extra minds and extra eyes on things.

      Thanks for confirming my plan. If I keep my circuitry as it is now, I will definitely utilize redundant check valves on this circuit.

      I will have to search for your pond build so I can see how you did things. Thanks again.

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    Page 2 of 36 FirstFirst 1234512 ... LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •