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  • Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
    Results 41 to 46 of 46

    Thread: experience with bakki showers

    1. #41
      graybird's Avatar
      graybird is offline Senior Member ~ WWKC BOD
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      Matt, the film on the media is brown. Areas that get more light have some green algal growth but not much. The shower is in the shade of a pair of redwood trees, though the southern end of it does get some sun. I have a sheet of matting on top of the top tray media to help keep out the big pieces that get through the skimmer baskets, as well as leaf drop from the trees. So, no, light is not completely blocked out, but it's mostly shaded. I will say I've been surprised that I haven't seen more algae.

      When I had the Stak-Paks, light was almost completely blocked, other than the cutouts for the spraybar in the lid. But that blocked air as well, so I don't have the answer to that conundrum. Is it even possible to block light but not air? If nitrosomonas are light-avoiding, why do shower filters all seem to eliminate nitrate? Most ponders don't have their showers in the dark. wait, lemme rephrase
      Mary

    2. #42
      Zac Penn's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by graybird View Post
      When I had the Stak-Paks, light was almost completely blocked, other than the cutouts for the spraybar in the lid. But that blocked air as well, so I don't have the answer to that conundrum. Is it even possible to block light but not air? If nitrosomonas are light-avoiding, why do shower filters all seem to eliminate nitrate? Most ponders don't have their showers in the dark. wait, lemme rephrase
      The light doesn't penetrate into the centers of the shower trays, when they are packed with media. This means that the light avoiding bacterial will only colonize in the inner section of the media pack, which means you have a lot of wasted media in a feather rock/lava rock filter. If you had a ceramic media where the water flows through it, the inner section of the media itself will be dark so more bacteria will colonize on each piece of media, which means less media is needed. That is my hypothosis!

      Zac

    3. #43
      mtsklar is offline Senior Member
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      Bio-film and Algae

      Hi Mary,
      Algae can be brown as well as many other colors. Biofilm slim can also be brown too. Most plastic medias seem to produce quite a bit of brown floc. We know that bio-films grow thicker on media that has relatively less surface area. These thicker films tend to slough a lot.

      Honestly Mary there are things about biofilms and algae that we don't understand. Take for example the photo attached.


      This photo was taken at a food mill. Experiments are being done with ingredients to test digestibility. All of the tanks have been fed the same food for the last 4 weeks. Notice that one tank is more clear than the others.

      It is hypothesized that either :
      • one of the koi has the right enzyme to digest all of the food (unlikely)
      • or
      • there is a bacteria in the clear tank that is acting to consume the ingredient the koi can't (more likely)


      Regards,
      Matt
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    4. #44
      Paultergeist is offline Senior Member
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      ....but in all seriousness, Matt,

      Mary's observation strikes at a core issue regarding showers: nitrate levels. Some time ago, I rummaged around through old threads regarding this very issue, and there were three different outcomes regarding showers and nitrate: (a) some folks experienced an increase in nitrate levels after using a shower, (b) some saw no difference, and (c) some reported a reduction in nitrate, as does Mary. I have never understood the reason behind this, and it is one of the major reasons that I was very interested at one time in performing a small-scale comparison study using showers.

      It may also be worthy to bear in mind some of the differences in a couple of these media types: With respect to your MP2C ceramic media, the objective seems to be to mainly provide optimal substrate for nitrifying bacteria, with tremendous surface area within a comparitvely small volumetric space. The Bacterial House (BH) media, on the other hand -- is supposedly designed to harbor a variety of bacterial-friendly micro-climates (or at least so I have heard), but I don't think that the emphasis on BH media is for as high a surface area/volume as the MP2C stuff. I also know that the BH media does not have the flow-through feature that the MP2C media does.

      I have heard claims of the BH media having some denitrifying capabilities, but I cannot currently locate technical literature from the manufacturer. I am now hearing that the stuff is not being made very available in the U.S., so it may all be a moot point.

      Were someone, someday, to perform a focused shower comparison study, I really think that the BH media should be evaluated, as it would provide some real data as to the putative "denitrifying" ability of this media. I don't know if such a study has been done, even by the manufacturer?

    5. #45
      mtsklar is offline Senior Member
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      Dear Mary, Paul and Zac,

      The combination of vast surface area, interconnected pores, and flow through is the power of the media. Take one of these characteristics away and MP2C can't do what it does.

      MP2C supports aerobic bacteria over a vast area of interconnected pores. The thin biofilm consumes oxygen in the water during nitrification. If the oxygen saturation level in the water gets below 2 ppm and the right carbon sources are available, then conditions are exist for denitrification. *

      In a shower filter it is possible that facultative anaerobes are present, if so then some nitrate destruction may be possible. Facultative anaerobes can live in an oxygen environment and without oxygen.

      Many various micro climates can and do exists in the MP2C bio-media. The folks that make K1 came out with the biochip because worms would come in and consume the biofilm on the open K1. The selling message they delivered was that biochip was to provide a home for rotifers. Rotifers can consume 1000 times their body weight in a day and eat particles up to 10 microns in size. A filter that supports rotifers and protects them from predatory swimming daphinia is a good thing. ie: a shower/trickle

      Well rotifers love MP2C and worms will have trouble getting into the pores.

      Strata International cultivates facultative bacteria by feeding them nitrates and phosphates.

      Matt

      * footnote: Denitrification is a process that is under study by many research facilities world wide. Cermedia does not claim at this time to have a solution for the denitrification process. Individual results may vary.

    6. #46
      mtsklar is offline Senior Member
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      Smile MP2C filter test results for 8/11/2010

      Latest test numbers from the exhibit supervisor.

      pH / NH4 / NO2 / NO3

      8.13 / 0.00 / 0.008 / 12 shark tank

      8.04 / 0.00 / 0.005 / 2.2 octopus tank (at 49 degrees F!)


      The shark tank at 17,000 GPH is on 12 cubic feet of media.
      Not sure how much in in the octopus tank.


      Quote Originally Posted by mtsklar View Post
      Jeff,
      Here is a follow up photo to my last post. The MP2C media is random packed in a single container installed in a filter room.

      Regards,
      Matt

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