I was able to build my foam fractionator into my waterfall basin. I was lucky to have read this thread during the design phase of my pond and so I used a wye to flow to a ball valve tap so I can hang my fractionator inside the walls where it can't be seen.
I was curious to see if the design worked when there was only a 32" drop and 300gph of flow. To help scale things down to this size, I used 4" piping and a 1.5" outlet.
Here is a shot just a moment after I set it up:
After dialing the taps around a bit so as to find the right amount of flow (since I'm stealing water that would otherwise go over the bakki shower), I felt I would leave it for the night and check on it tomorrow. However, 45 mins later I couldn't resist looking into the pipe, and here is what I found:
So yes, you can build a scaled down version and yes it will quickly fill a 4" pipe with foam!
A question though: I'm using an unglued 4" pipe section to get the foam up and out of the waterfall basin. Is it better for me to step it down to 3" right above the Tee? Or is 4" my best bet to keep the foam moving along the flat pipe and down to the ground?
Last edited by pond happy; 05-28-2015 at 09:42 PM.
looks like the 4" is working so I don't see a need to change it. Wonderful job!
Ephesians 2:8-9
faith is a gift, not a personal talent.
great post
Two questions:
I have seen it mentioned to have a "scraper" in the unit. Can anyone elaborate on this?
I built a PP unit recently. Instead of a valve to control the outflow I ran my pipe up just a little then back down and then it flows out into my pond. This seems to be working fine as far as managing the height in my Tee. However, my phoam production is light. Could this be the reason?
I have a 48 inch tall unit built with 4 inch PVC. Water is coming out of a Laguna Pressure filter, so pretty clean water to start with, so I filled it with K1. I think my flow is around 1000 gph.
Any obvious flaws in my build? Or is my low phoam output do to level of water flow?
THanks in advance.
try to flow 600-800 gph through the 4" unit maybe....
the "scraper" just helps the bubbles NOT get past the tee. SInce the bubbles are toward the top of the water column, it helps them in directing upward.
Ephesians 2:8-9
faith is a gift, not a personal talent.
My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois
More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org
Any pictures of a scraper?
Would I just cut out of rigid plastic (ice cream bucket?) a half circle, or slightly smaller, and hang it down into the Tee?
I am imagining something the diameter of the outlet pipe, but only blocking the top third of the outlet. Hanging in the middle so bubbles caught in front have to go up, and maybe an eddy is created behind it to draw bubbles up too.
yes, exactly
Ephesians 2:8-9
faith is a gift, not a personal talent.
This was the first time I saw it suggested by Mississauga Ponder and has some pictures:
https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...02#post1649402
On making a scraper, I used a section of sech. 120 4" pipe with about 1/2" cut out of its circumference. Since I was using a wye instead of a tee I also shaped the lower edge to match the curve of the transiting part of the fitting. Sech. 120 pipe is about 3/32" inch thick and is already curved so it can be made to fit perfectly.
Here is a handy calculator for determining circumference.http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/calcirc.htm
Regards, Ken
The most powerful point of suction in the pond occurs at our checking account. It's all Marges fault!
Thanks for the scraper tips.
I cut up a plastic whiskey bottle and made something pretty similar. Tried a 2 liter pop bottle but the plastic is so flimsy that it wouldn't hold a shape well enough. Whiskey bottle holds better.
I am getting some foam, but not enough to really be pushing it out. Due to space constraints my Tee is right next to the 90. I don't think there is enough time in that short travel distance for the bubbles to rise to the top 100%. So thanks to a sweet gift card from my neighbors (I trapped their goldfish stealing raccoon) I have some extra spending money and will not feel foolish just starting over. Again, due to space constraints, I will come down to a 90, then go about 4 inches, then 90 and go another 8 inches to a Tee. I think having 12 inches of travel will get those bubbles to the top.
Ethan suggested that I slow the flow down a bit. My setup makes it hard to do that here. If my rebuild doesn't solve the problem I will find a way to slow it down.
Could a pull water off of my shower trays? The water for the shower comes from my bottom drains through EA sieves and then up to the shower trays. Or, would I have to draw the water from the skimmers to get at the DOCS?
it will still work, if you have good pond circulation already TMAX. Some have incorporated an area after their shower trays where the water pools, slows, so they can pull the foam off that way,
Ephesians 2:8-9
faith is a gift, not a personal talent.
See my post a few lines above this one. I have a shower and used the space next to it for the fractionator. This was done with a simple wye which had the main 3" line for the shower head and then a 1" line for the fractionator (with a ball valve to control flow, of course). Essentially I use the same drop for the shower as the drop for the fractionator.
Thank you for asking. I don't have a picture at the moment, but I can confirm that the foam production is almost identical to the picture from before. This unit, though a smaller version, seems to be gaining ground too as there is less foam on the water and around the waterfall. So I think with enough time (and having it on from the start of the season as opposed to constructing it a few weeks late) the fractionator will be able to keep pace even in the heaviest feeding months.
I'm tempted to add a simple scraper too, but I noticed that the backside of the Tee seems to act as a scraper already provided you run the correct water level. The water level I'm running is ever-so-slightly up into the neck of the Tee, and it just took a few minutes of playing around to find that right setting. I find that after an adjustment, you have to give it a couple full minutes to appreciate how much more or less foam is being created. It's not enough to change the water level and make that call right away.
Hi!
I built one of Ethan's PPs two days ago. I used 1.5" bio barrels. The only thing I deviated from Ethan's initial plan was to use a 6x6x4" wye instead of a tee. I just couldn't find a tee nearby.
I feed it directly from my skimmer pump, so the water going in isn't the cleanest but it's not horrible.
Within minutes of firing the unit up I started getting foam:
And here is the full unit and my fellow engineers:
Anyways.
It ran well for a few hours and then it stopped working correctly.
It was literally pouring foam out with minimal adjustment when I started it but now I can barely get it to work right. It is not for lack of DOC, my water is brown and there is tons of foam produced elsewhere.
When the unit is running I adjust the water level just inside the 4" portion of the wye. There is tons of sputtering and gurgling, I can see lots of foam but it won't collect. I installed a valve on the source shower to regulate the flow better.
I've tried full open and I've tried restricting the input flow. It seems to barely be producing now.
Nothing really changed from when I first turned it on to when it stopped working.
Any ideas?
Jason
Last edited by koko93s; 07-02-2015 at 11:29 PM.
You may have a couple issues that make the foam come and go.
I have noticed that direct sunlight onto the foam outlet will cause the foam to break down into blackish-wastewater very quickly. This means at the hottest part of the day a lot of your foam is probably heading right back down that long wye neck and back into the water. Check again in the evening to see if foam production has picked up again.
Also, because you've used a wye, I wonder if the scraping effect of the foam outflow is not as pronounced. Perhaps try adding a scraper into the wye neck or else adjust the water level up a little bit more (it takes several minutes to assess the results of such a change - don't just give up on it a few seconds after adjustment).
Finally, I have personally noticed that the higher you ask the foam to rise before it's spit out into a bucket (or onto the ground) seems to be inversely related to how quickly foam is produced, almost like the bubbles themselves refuse to be forced out of the outlet it there is too much resistance. You may consider trying to get the foam out of the wye more quickly (again the wye being a contributing factor here, I think), but rerouting it in some manner (my tee changes to horizontal as quickly as possible to allow the bubbles to be forced out of the pipe as soon as possible).
Last edited by pond happy; 07-03-2015 at 03:33 AM.