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  • Results 1 to 16 of 16

    Thread: An explanation of my other thread!!!

    1. #1
      Brutuscz's Avatar
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      An explanation of my other thread!!!

      I think my other thread was taken all wrong...and I feel the need to clarify. I do not think Ethan or David did anything wrong. There is no good rule regarding this issue. My point was..there should be for next season. David did not sell his koi prior to the show. He had them listed for sale on this site..but, he was still the owner. I have already apologized to him for the confusion. I think this issue should be addressed in the rules for next year. I believe any koi entered in the show should not be for sale at the time of the show...or in the known future. It is too easy for this to be used as an easy advertisement, or a selling point. This koi won award XYZ in the WWKC show and is now for sale...for the cheap price of $1,000,000...own this champion today. You can see what I mean.
      I did not bring it up prior to the show...because I did not want it to affect the judging or outcome in any way. Now, that all is said and done...it is ok to discuss it for next year. I have done this show all 3yrs...and care what happens with it. That is why I have brought this up. NOT to disparage any individual in any way. Sorry if it came across that way. David was a deserving winner...and I congratulate him!!!


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    2. #2
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      Do you really think David will now be able to ask a higher price for his Koi that was Grand Champion in a VIRTUAL KOI SHOW?

      It is fun to do the VKS and I have entered as well and if one of mine win, I do appreciate the judges agreeing that it is the best in its class or ????

      But, do I think I could take that same fish to an actual show and do as well, I don't think so, but who knows.

      If I were interested in buying David's GC fish and he told me the GC came from a VKS, I would have to say soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

      Not to put down the VKS and all the work that is done by Susan and others, it is a big undertaking and every year they do a better job and I am sure next year's VKS will be even better than this year's.

      I appreciate the VKS because I never intend to take my fish to a regular Koi show, so it gives me somewhere to compete and have fun.

      A last thought, let's don't make so many rules that it causes some to find a way around the rule. There is always a way around a rule.




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    3. #3
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      I thought our show was free and for fun. I can't afford David's fish so makes no difference to me. I think he's a heck of a guy for putting his mom first.
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


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      The VKS can not police each and every entrant and if they ( a private owner wants to sell his or her fish) after this or any show it is not our responsibility or authority to say one way or another about their private business!

    5. #5
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      my goldie got an honorable mention, if I could place them both, I'd give them away
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


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    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brutuscz View Post
      I think my other thread was taken all wrong...and I feel the need to clarify. I do not think Ethan or David did anything wrong. There is no good rule regarding this issue. My point was..there should be for next season. David did not sell his koi prior to the show. He had them listed for sale on this site..but, he was still the owner. I have already apologized to him for the confusion. I think this issue should be addressed in the rules for next year. I believe any koi entered in the show should not be for sale at the time of the show...or in the known future. It is too easy for this to be used as an easy advertisement, or a selling point. This koi won award XYZ in the WWKC show and is now for sale...for the cheap price of $1,000,000...own this champion today. You can see what I mean.
      I did not bring it up prior to the show...because I did not want it to affect the judging or outcome in any way. Now, that all is said and done...it is ok to discuss it for next year. I have done this show all 3yrs...and care what happens with it. That is why I have brought this up. NOT to disparage any individual in any way. Sorry if it came across that way. David was a deserving winner...and I congratulate him!!!
      I have one queastion since you brought up rule violations Isn't there a posted rule that dealers or others that derive income from koi or the hobby aren't allowed to enter fish???????? Then Explain how you circumvented this rule???????


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      Some koi on ebay from koigeeks!!! Black butterfly, ochiba!!
      I have these for sale on ebay...plus a few more. The gin shiro utsuri is about 10inches. Very nice!!! Here is the link:
      http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/koigee...Q_fromZQQ_ipgZ
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    7. #7
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      I believe that its the fish being judged. On that point alone, the fish is awarded a ribbon. If the person chooses to rehome post photos who cares?
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    8. #8
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      My ear just tingled.....

      am I being spoken of??
      Ephesians 2:8-9
      faith is a gift, not a personal talent.


    9. #9
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      my wife is laying down the law and saying no more pond. I am doing all I can to convince her otherwise. We are moving. She wants more of my time and less of my time with a pond, and so is pretty much forcing me out of the hobby. She hates how much it costs.

      I don't get it...why are you upset that I suddenly am selling off ALL my fish? It isn't as though I am selling only the winners....hell, I didn't even think I had won anything....and I really didn't win any major award, except the Ryukin award....and she happened to die the day before the fish were judged.

      I am trying, TRYING to hold onto the three fish I can hold in a 300 gallon tank....all the rest are going. If I can, I am trying to sell them all off to get money together to possibly buy something that will reduce drastically the amount of time I spend taking care of the pond.

      I am too busy, and quite honestly too nice and honest of a person to try to use an online koi show to advance myself. Also, this show is for fun. It's based on pictures. Quite a few things cannot be judged by pictures, which is why this was for fun.

      and, aren't you a dealer? what's your beef?

      /endrant
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    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ethan25 View Post
      my wife is laying down the law and saying no more pond. I am doing all I can to convince her otherwise. We are moving. She wants more of my time and less of my time with a pond, and so is pretty much forcing me out of the hobby. She hates how much it costs.

      I don't get it...why are you upset that I suddenly am selling off ALL my fish? It isn't as though I am selling only the winners....hell, I didn't even think I had won anything....and I really didn't win any major award, except the Ryukin award....and she happened to die the day before the fish were judged.

      I am trying, TRYING to hold onto the three fish I can hold in a 300 gallon tank....all the rest are going. If I can, I am trying to sell them all off to get money together to possibly buy something that will reduce drastically the amount of time I spend taking care of the pond.

      I am too busy, and quite honestly too nice and honest of a person to try to use an online koi show to advance myself. Also, this show is for fun. It's based on pictures. Quite a few things cannot be judged by pictures, which is why this was for fun.

      and, aren't you a dealer? what's your beef?

      /endrant
      Preach it brother E.
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    11. #11
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      I didn't circumvent any rule. I sell a few small domestic koi on ebay...nothing hidden about it. I purposely contacted susan before the show to ask if I would be allowed to compete, even though I sell some koi. I was told yes. I don't even get mine for wholesale prices...I buy them from a wholesaler. None of my own personal show koi are for sale.
      If you think it is ok to place a koi for sale on this site...then, enter it in a show on the same site...then, no reason for a rule. I don't see this as being the correct way of doing things.
      Ethan...nothing personal. But, I think if you knew you were about to put them up for sale...you should have pulled them from the show. That is my opinion.

      Like I said...I waited until after the show for this discussion, so it would not interfere with the show. This is to discuss weather a rule is needed for next year. I think a rule is needed to prevent a conflict of interest. But, if you don't see it that way...then don't make a rule and leave things as they are.
      David and Ethan did not do anything wrong, they broke no rules...and I congratulate them both on their awards.


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    12. #12
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      Ethan wasnt going to sell them until post fact. You said you have no issue with this and yet you just outted your self by stating "if you knew you were going to sell them you should have pulled them"

      You obviously are upset.

      Either way its the fish with the ribbon. Not the tank owner. Anyone get that? Just me? mk...
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      There's a saying, " Knowledge is power, but a little knowledge is dangerous"!!!

    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brutuscz View Post
      I didn't circumvent any rule. I sell a few small domestic koi on ebay...nothing hidden about it. I purposely contacted susan before the show to ask if I would be allowed to compete, even though I sell some koi. I was told yes. I don't even get mine for wholesale prices...I buy them from a wholesaler. None of my own personal show koi are for sale.
      If you think it is ok to place a koi for sale on this site...then, enter it in a show on the same site...then, no reason for a rule. I don't see this as being the correct way of doing things.
      Ethan...nothing personal. But, I think if you knew you were about to put them up for sale...you should have pulled them from the show. That is my opinion.

      Like I said...I waited until after the show for this discussion, so it would not interfere with the show. This is to discuss weather a rule is needed for next year. I think a rule is needed to prevent a conflict of interest. But, if you don't see it that way...then don't make a rule and leave things as they are.
      David and Ethan did not do anything wrong, they broke no rules...and I congratulate them both on their awards.

      But, I think if you knew you were about to put them up for sale...you should have pulled them from the show. That is my opinion.
      man, I had absolutely no clue. My wife sprung it on me. I can't read her mind....

      back off.
      edit: and, by the way, I had more important things on my mind than remembering to pull them from the online picture koi show.
      Last edited by Ethan25; 12-09-2009 at 04:42 PM.
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    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brutuscz View Post
      I didn't circumvent any rule. I sell a few small domestic koi on ebay...nothing hidden about it. I purposely contacted susan before the show to ask if I would be allowed to compete, even though I sell some koi. I was told yes. I don't even get mine for wholesale prices...I buy them from a wholesaler. None of my own personal show koi are for sale.
      If you think it is ok to place a koi for sale on this site...then, enter it in a show on the same site...then, no reason for a rule. I don't see this as being the correct way of doing things.
      Ethan...nothing personal. But, I think if you knew you were about to put them up for sale...you should have pulled them from the show. That is my opinion.

      Like I said...I waited until after the show for this discussion, so it would not interfere with the show. This is to discuss weather a rule is needed for next year. I think a rule is needed to prevent a conflict of interest. But, if you don't see it that way...then don't make a rule and leave things as they are.
      David and Ethan did not do anything wrong, they broke no rules...and I congratulate them both on their awards.
      So you ADMIT you are a dealer of KOI and you still entered koi even thoght the rules stricictly forbid it????? How may of the koi you entered are sold or are for sale? If you say none then we have to take you at your word, so why don't you do the same for Ethan since he DIDN'T break an established rule and YOU DID
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    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by slmtrm View Post
      So you ADMIT you are a dealer of KOI and you still entered koi even thoght the rules stricictly forbid it????? How may of the koi you entered are sold or are for sale? If you say none then we have to take you at your word, so why don't you do the same for Ethan since he DIDN'T break an established rule and YOU DID
      Dude..if you are trying to be a lawyer...keep your day job. Seriously.

      Ethan...I hear you. I understand it happens. I simply like the rule I have seen in a show I entered...and would like to see it here.
      It simply states that the koi you are entering are owned by you and your pets....and not intended for sale. I like the rule and think it is very fair. You could see where this show can grow...and this can become an issue.


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    16. #16
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      we aren't going to rehash, its over and done. Take the concerns to next years committee.
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


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