• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
    Results 21 to 40 of 49

    Thread: Pondless waterfall construction

    1. #21
      birdman's Avatar
      birdman is offline DIY Savant
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2005
      Location
      Palm Springs, CA.
      Posts
      21,812
      Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
      1. When I split the PVC three ways at the top using three 2" single union ball valves, I want to use a standard cross fitting, correct? ...attach the cross, put the ball valves right on them, and voila, 3-way split?

      2. The bottom drain is 4", but I'm use 3" pipe. Just use a bushing (?) for that? I think that's what it was called at Lowes... just a thing that basically instantly changed the pipe diameter from 4" to 3".

      3. Any recommendations on how you guys house your external pumps? I was going to use a utility box and dig it in the ground, but they didn't have any large enough at Lowes (I need roughly 1' x 2.5' by 2' deep).
      The 4 way cross will work, the center outlet will get the most flow so this valve will be pinched the most for even distribution.

      Yes, a 4 by 3 bushing will work but what I like better is a 4 by 3 bell reducer. Available at Lowes.

      Large pump vaults are hard to find. I usually just make a wood enclosure with some kind of lid. Keep the bottom open with some gravel for drainage. Another possibility is a lg rubbermaid container. Drill holes in the bottom for drainage, and in the top of the sides for air flow. What ever you use, remember to allow for air flow for cooling.

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    2. #22
      Drz's Avatar
      Drz is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      San Antonio
      Posts
      36
      Thanks Steve!

    3. #23
      Drz's Avatar
      Drz is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      San Antonio
      Posts
      36
      Steve already helped me with this issue over the phone, but unfortunately I didn't take good notes on this part. I have the ESBB10500 and will be burying it in the ground in an enclosure. The feeder pipe will be at the bottom of the pond.

      My question is, does it matter if the water level drops below the pump level? Let's say I only bury the pump a foot deep, turn on the pump, and there's air in the pipe. Does that matter?

      Does the amount of air matter? Originally I was planning on putting the pump right next to the pond so there'd be at most a few feet of air in the pipe, but now I'm considering a location about 10 feet away.

    4. #24
      birdman's Avatar
      birdman is offline DIY Savant
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2005
      Location
      Palm Springs, CA.
      Posts
      21,812
      Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
      Steve already helped me with this issue over the phone, but unfortunately I didn't take good notes on this part. I have the ESBB10500 and will be burying it in the ground in an enclosure. The feeder pipe will be at the bottom of the pond.

      My question is, does it matter if the water level drops below the pump level? Let's say I only bury the pump a foot deep, turn on the pump, and there's air in the pipe. Does that matter?

      Does the amount of air matter? Originally I was planning on putting the pump right next to the pond so there'd be at most a few feet of air in the pipe, but now I'm considering a location about 10 feet away.
      Did you get a check valve for the suction line? I can't remember. As long as you have a swing check as close to the pond as possible, and under the water level you can put the pump as far awas or haif as you want. Just fill the priming pot with the garden hose. The air will purge out of the line and the line will pack with water. No problem then.

    5. #25
      Drz's Avatar
      Drz is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      San Antonio
      Posts
      36
      Dumb question of the day:

      The intake is on the side (right side of the picture) and the outflow is on the top, correct? Not the other way around?


    6. #26
      kytalker's Avatar
      kytalker is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2007
      Location
      Western Kentucky
      Posts
      990
      Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
      Dumb question of the day:

      The intake is on the side (right side of the picture) and the outflow is on the top, correct? Not the other way around?

      You are correct...

    7. #27
      Drz's Avatar
      Drz is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      San Antonio
      Posts
      36
      Thanks! I was 99% sure, but didn't want to turn it on and be horribly surprised.

      Progress has still been slow due to other parts of life rearing their ugly heads, but the pace is picking up. My goal is to finish the plumbing today. In the meantime, here are some random pics from yesterday:


      I use the wooden board to keep the pond from filling when it rains.


      I used 3" PVC and a combo of 45 and 22.5 degree joints to plumb up the hill on the left.


      Middle tier


      Top tier


      Nothing in particular


      Future site of three 16" spillways


      The retaining wall sticks out about 1 foot when viewed from the top. I think I'll put liner down the retaining walls and cover it with rocks, similar to this project.


      Misc. plumbing parts


      I used a 2" hole cutter to drill through the plastic, a 2" male bushing, a 2" female bushing, and the pictured "tank to bowl" gasket that I found at Lowes. I thought I'd have to seal up around the hole, but just the bushings and the gasket seem to have made it completely water-tight.


      I tried to cut the hole in a non-cuttable place on that left one so I J.B. welded over it to patch that up.

    8. #28
      Drz's Avatar
      Drz is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      San Antonio
      Posts
      36
      I finally turned on the pump today for the first time ever, and it made a whirring, knocking noise, but there was no suction. It's an ESBB 10500 pump. Is there something I need to do to the pump to get its suction started? It didn't come with a manual.

    9. #29
      birdman's Avatar
      birdman is offline DIY Savant
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2005
      Location
      Palm Springs, CA.
      Posts
      21,812
      Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
      I finally turned on the pump today for the first time ever, and it made a whirring, knocking noise, but there was no suction. It's an ESBB 10500 pump. Is there something I need to do to the pump to get its suction started? It didn't come with a manual.
      Did you prime the pump? Fill the priming pot full of water?

    10. #30
      Drz's Avatar
      Drz is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      San Antonio
      Posts
      36
      Thanks for the PMs Birdman. I think it's close to working. When I plug it in (fully primed), the water in the priming pot shoots out the outtake, but the water in the intake pipes doesn't suck into the priming pot. I'm assuming this means there's an air leak somewhere that's messing up the suction. I'll look at it more during the week.

      The pump is very loud at the moment, I'm hoping it'll get quieter once the flow is working properly.

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    11. #31
      birdman's Avatar
      birdman is offline DIY Savant
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2005
      Location
      Palm Springs, CA.
      Posts
      21,812
      Your pictures don't show what the pump is taking suction from. Is the pump drawing down tour pond to the point of sucking air? I know this is a large waterfall with a small pond or reservoir at the bottom, but it still has to hold enough water to support the pump.

    12. #32
      Drz's Avatar
      Drz is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      San Antonio
      Posts
      36
      No, there is no suction at all from the pond, nor the water in the tube from the pond to the pump. Here are some pictures for reference:


      All set up for the test run. In this picture the pump is in its underground box in the back-left corner, but I eventually took it out.


      Pump out. It's hard to tell, but the pond is filled with water, and all pipes are connected (4" PVC).


      Here is a closeup of the pump. Note that the PVC is not sealed for this test run. Each time before I plug it in, I fill the priming pot near the top so the intake PVC is filled, and then of course put the lid on. The swing check is installed at the base of the pipe and keeps the water in there.

      When I plug it in, the water in the priming pot is immediately pumped into the outtake pipes, but there is no suction in the intake pipes so the priming pot remains empty.

      I'm 90% sure what's happening is that because I haven't sealed the connections, there is air seeping into the priming pot. So rather than the priming pot being filled with water as its sucked up from the pond, it instead gets filled with the air that is being sucked inside from the connections. I've made the connections as handtight as I can, but they are not 100% airtight. Does this sound like a reasonable theory?

      The obvious way to test this would be to seal the connections at the pump. My only fear is that once I do that, I won't be able to remove those connections, and I'm afraid if I have a warranty issue that I wouldn't be able to return it. Any advice? Should I bite the bullet, seal the connections so they are 100% airtight, and hope it works?

    13. #33
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC President
      ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is sorry otters exist
       
      Feeling:
      Annoyed
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      32,942
      I'd get unions for the connections at the pump... even if you don't need to return it, there
      will come a time when you need to remove the pump.
      --Steve



      Koiphen 2021 Koi Person of the Year!

    14. #34
      Drz's Avatar
      Drz is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      San Antonio
      Posts
      36
      The pump actually came with some unions (I think they're unions... they look like the diagram below), but I wasn't able to screw it in all the way so that the left part was flush with the outer shell. Is that common? How do people overcome that? With a giant pair of pliers?


    15. #35
      richtoybox's Avatar
      richtoybox is offline Administrator
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      14,345
      Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
      I'm 90% sure what's happening is that because I haven't sealed the connections, there is air seeping into the priming pot. So rather than the priming pot being filled with water as its sucked up from the pond, it instead gets filled with the air that is being sucked inside from the connections. I've made the connections as handtight as I can, but they are not 100% airtight. Does this sound like a reasonable theory?

      The obvious way to test this would be to seal the connections at the pump. My only fear is that once I do that, I won't be able to remove those connections, and I'm afraid if I have a warranty issue that I wouldn't be able to return it. Any advice? Should I bite the bullet, seal the connections so they are 100% airtight, and hope it works?
      On the intake side, all joints in the pvc need to be glued to keep air out. If air gets in, it will break the suction on the pump. Seal the threaded fitting to the pump basket with either teflon tape or teflon pipe dope to be sure air doesn't get in there. The top of the pump basket may need a little o-ring grease to keep it from leaking, also.
      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    16. #36
      WAC is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2009
      Location
      Midwest
      Posts
      1,576
      Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
      My only fear is that once I do that, I won't be able to remove those connections ...
      There should be a set of 3 inch "half-unions" included with the pump. Oftentimes it's either wrapped amongst the brown packing paper or set inside the priming pot/leaf trap.

      The half unions allow you to connect & disconnect the pipe-work from the pump whenever maintenance deems it necessary.
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    17. #37
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC President
      ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is sorry otters exist
       
      Feeling:
      Annoyed
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      32,942
      Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
      The pump actually came with some unions (I think they're unions... they look like the diagram below), but I wasn't able to screw it in all the way so that the left part was flush with the outer shell. Is that common? How do people overcome that? With a giant pair of pliers?

      That's them!

      I never paid attention to how far they went on... you should be able to just screw
      them in hand tight... they should have a o-ring, and you just want a good seal
      between the o-ring and the opposite surface. I use an adjustable oil filter wrench
      to remove them, but you shouldn't need to tighten it very hard when installing.... tight, but not wrench tight!
      Last edited by icu2; 03-22-2010 at 10:20 PM.
      --Steve



      Koiphen 2021 Koi Person of the Year!

    18. #38
      birdman's Avatar
      birdman is offline DIY Savant
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2005
      Location
      Palm Springs, CA.
      Posts
      21,812
      The picture is probably deceiving, but it looks like the suction line goes from 4" to a 2" swing check. Is it 4" all the way? Out side of that like everyone else said your joints are probably sucking air.
      Yes, use the unions that came with the pump.

    19. #39
      pennypicher is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Location
      Boston
      Posts
      183
      As Rich said use some o ring lube (synthedic grease) on the threads. Same set up for my pool and they are a pain to remove without a little grease on the threads. Also for the o ring under the cover, not a lot here though.

    20. #40
      Drz's Avatar
      Drz is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      San Antonio
      Posts
      36
      Thank you everyone! I'm going to pick up an oil filter wrench on my way home tomorrow to make sure the seals are tight. I do have the half unions but not the o-rings for them, I'll have to find or buy those too.

      Birdman, in the picture it's a 4" pipe to a 3" swing check, but these were taken before I discovered the half unions. I'll be using 3" pipe the whole way.

      I'm looking forward to sharing pics of the completed plumbing soon, to be followed by the completed project!


      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •