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    Thread: ki shusui project with a twist :)

    1. #4361
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is online now Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
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      Amazing documentation Max!
      Pics from the lower pond are my favorites.
      And Phil Balshi shots were beautiful.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    2. #4362
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Amazing documentation Max!
      Pics from the lower pond are my favorites.
      And Phil Balshi shots were beautiful.
      Thanks, Steve!!!
      Phil has a feeling for the koi as art. He's planning another show in Carmel, Ca.
      His website is Philbalshi.com
      Thanks for the tech intervention. ,
      Last edited by Koigrl; 10-12-2018 at 09:01 AM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2013

    3. #4363
      lukef's Avatar
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      I blinked, and you went from some nutty lady that had no idea of what she was trying to do and how difficult (impossible) it would be to accomplish such a thing to someone that must have every koi breeder's respect.
      You did an amazing thing; creating a fish you envisioned. And some of the healthiest fish I have seen. And since you are what you do..you must be amazing.
      I didn't think you could do it. I didn't think ANY hobbyist could do it. And you had so much sht happen especially with the ponds not holding water...And it has been so many years. And you kept going, and making progress...
      You are still a NUT for even trying.
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    4. #4364
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      I blinked, and you went from some nutty lady that had no idea of what she was trying to do and how difficult (impossible) it would be to accomplish such a thing to someone that must have every koi breeder's respect.
      You did an amazing thing; creating a fish you envisioned. And some of the healthiest fish I have seen. And since you are what you do..you must be amazing.
      I didn't think you could do it. I didn't think ANY hobbyist could do it. And you had so much sht happen especially with the ponds not holding water...And it has been so many years. And you kept going, and making progress...
      You are still a NUT for even trying.
      Luke, thank you very much. Your words mean a lot to me and I'm taking them to heart.
      It took a village; John Clark taking the culls made it possible, the bulldozer men and ground crew at the pulls and having my koiphen friends to see the pictures and support this effort motivated me during those hard times.
      for being straight with me and sticking with my project all these years.

      Max

      P.S. I had a koiphen mentor who was also a Nut trying to breed Ki Kumonryu, the Golden Dragon, in Australia where you can't just go online and get the fish you need. Bindi borrowed fish, used wild carp, and came close to her dream when her oyagoi passed. I haven't heard from Bindi in about three years, but I hope she's well and happy. One of the last things she told me was that when I have my F3 spawn, "You'll have ki shusui coming out of your ears."
      An unforgettable image and F3 is still in the planning stage. Sorry I can't show her where we are at F2.

      Last edited by Koigrl; 10-11-2018 at 10:03 AM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2013

    5. #4365
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      Koigrl, You got done just in time! Doing a cull in the colder temps would be downright wicked!

      I looked back on the last few pages (its a lot to take in, all those pics to drool over). I still chuckle every time you mention "the Learning Curve Pond". At this point you seem light years beyond that.
      May I ask what you feed them, or is that a "trade secret"?

      I'm sorry I couldn't take you up on your offer to come up this time, but attending one of your culls is on my Bucket List. Some day I want to see those beauties up close and in person!
      Find Something You Would Die For And Live for It.



    6. #4366
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
      Koigrl, You got done just in time! Doing a cull in the colder temps would be downright wicked!

      I looked back on the last few pages (its a lot to take in, all those pics to drool over). I still chuckle every time you mention "the Learning Curve Pond". At this point you seem light years beyond that.
      May I ask what you feed them, or is that a "trade secret"?

      I'm sorry I couldn't take you up on your offer to come up this time, but attending one of your culls is on my Bucket List. Some day I want to see those beauties up close and in person!
      Hi, Darkstar!
      As for the Learning Curve Pond.
      When I started falling for koi in about 2006, I bought a lot of koi, one of each kind. I made a lot of mistakes, first thing, overcrowding = very bad. Over time the numbers reduced themselves, I fell for shusui, and then ki shusui as a challenge. I put in the ki shusui project pond in 2008-2009 and that's when the real project began.

      The Learning Curve Pond has a large number of big fish and all their random flock-spawn offspring. It is a real hit to pull those monsters and cup their chins in my hand, impossible to explain why!

      I feed all the fish Blackwater Creek foods; mostly Gold-N, medium pellet and also a few handfuls of large pellets, and now, I'm feeding BWC's cool weather medium pellet.

      Since May, while I was trying to grow the 250 best ki shusui in the Lower Pond, I bought some Japanese Growth food. I mixed that with Gold-N, fed them 3x a day. The lunch meal included orange juice and freeze-dried blood worms. Yum!

      Would it be interesting to see how much they've grown in five months?
      May 2018: Attached is a partial photo of a plastic tub with x# of 1 yr. olds who had been living in the lower pond (135k gals of flow-through well water) with a total of 750 siblings. I split that 750 into three batches, 250 into each pond; Big, Lower, LCP.

      In October, last week, we took pix of a tub of the same size, full of the 1.5yr olds who have been getting the diet above, living with only 250 in the Lower Pond.

      I estimate that in May, the fish averaged 4-6" long.
      In October, the average was 10-13" long.
      I'm very interested to see how they look next May.

      Darkstar, any time you want to come to one of our Harvests, you are welcome.
      Next up, Learning Curve Pond on Oct. 25.
      Watch this space.

      Attached Images Attached Images   
      Last edited by Koigrl; 10-16-2018 at 07:25 PM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2013

    7. #4367
      DarkStar is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koigrl View Post
      Hi, Darkstar!
      As for the Learning Curve Pond.
      When I started falling for koi in about 2006, I bought a lot of koi, one of each kind. I made a lot of mistakes, first thing, overcrowding = very bad.
      You couldn't have made more mistakes than I did; my first koi purchases were based on: "Oooooooooh How pretty!" And I'm still making mistakes, just not the same kind.
      But out of your mistakes you eventually made lemonade .... literally! Lemon ki shusui. You should be shouting from the rooftops!

      Quote Originally Posted by Koigrl View Post
      The Learning Curve Pond has a large number of big fish and all their random flock-spawn offspring. It is a real hit to pull those monsters and cup their chins in my hand, impossible to explain why!
      I get it. Footprints in the sand. Looking back at that special part of your journey and how much you accomplished with what you had.

      re: Food - thank you for all the info! Very helpful. I've decided to go back to Blackwater as well.

      Quote Originally Posted by Koigrl View Post
      I estimate that in May, the fish averaged 4-6" long.
      In October, the average was 10-13" long.
      I'm very interested to see how they look next May.
      So about 6-7" growth in around 5 months. SO NICE! I can see the difference in the photos.

      Quote Originally Posted by Koigrl View Post
      Next up, Learning Curve Pond on Oct. 25.
      Watch this space.
      THIS October 25? With the nosedive in our weather, "this space" is likely to show beautiful Koi and photos of a Koigrl popsicle! Are you sure you haven't learned enough from the Learning Curve Pond for one season? Just kidding.
      Can hardly wait to see the new pics!
      Find Something You Would Die For And Live for It.



    8. #4368
      Matt24's Avatar
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      This is a very special one here. I don't recall seeing one like this before. I once got a metallic blue/white shusui out of a flock spawn, but it had no orange or yellow.

      Name:  metallic shusui.jpg
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Size:  93.0 KB

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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      This is a very special one here. I don't recall seeing one like this before. I once got a metallic blue/white shusui out of a flock spawn, but it had no orange or yellow.
      Definitely special. Brilliant color and beautiful pattern too!

      Max mentioned getting some Metallics too. What do you both do when you get them if they meet the other criteria? (Please forgive my lack of breeding knowledge) Assuming they are undesirable to the program at this time (?), wouldn't metallics also be attractive / in demand once your colors, skin tone, etc. are breeding true?
      I'll never start my own breeding program, but it's still really interesting and educational stuff!
      Find Something You Would Die For And Live for It.



    10. #4370
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      This is a very special one here. I don't recall seeing one like this before. I once got a metallic blue/white shusui out of a flock spawn, but it had no orange or yellow.

      Name:  metallic shusui.jpg
Views: 97
Size:  93.0 KB
      Hi, Matt, apologies for not getting back to you (same to you Darkstar).
      I've been in computer heck due to a) i broke my keyboard, and b) when it was replaced there was no room on my computer for 10 yrs of fish photos, necessitating a new hard drive and that's more explanation than you need or want!

      Matt, That's a ki kinsui as best as I can figure out. I have had a quite a number of these over the years and try to move them along because shusui is not a metallic fish. Ogons who live in this pond are, of course, metallic, but I got ones that are least shiny. I have a really wonderful hariwake and I suspect he's the one passing on the metallic genes. In years to come, I'm going to have to move him to the learning curve pond but not yet.
      about this particular fish, i was about to give it to John Clark and he convinced me to keep it.
      Let's see how he looks next year. Anyway, he says, thanks, Matt.

      Darkstar,
      I'm sorry you live too far to come to the learning curve pond pull at my place.
      I've got all my photos on a portable drive now and going to tell you all about Oct. 25 in the mud = and yes, it was freaking cold. No fish died in the pull of this pond, (!) but some of us almost froze our feet off.

      Ready?
      Here we go.
      Last edited by Koigrl; 10-28-2018 at 04:15 PM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
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    11. #4371
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      1.The October 2018 pull at the Learning Curve Pond -- the craziest harvest here ever!

      Team Ki,

      Guys, It was a cold and crazy day in the Learning Curve Pond. The dock was reconstructed in situ, reeds were cut and removed, pets were pulled including my true love, the ki asagi known as Thelonius. I have a showa goes by the name of Gloria and we were so cold and giddy by the time we pulled her, my stepson, Brendan, pulled up the music on his phone and about eight of us danced in the mud, "singing Gloria-ahhhhhh."

      First, from the pond to the house, ready to go
      The poor old dock. Maybe you can see the gate that Hoppy Quick made last year. He ended up standing in cold water for 8 hours in regular cotton pants and sneakers to make the dock safe.

      See Sage and Liam bring in cut cattails and pseudocorus iris, for some reason of mine not wanting them to decay over winter. i think last time we'll do this.

      John pulls the first seine net. Note that green duckweed. Heather who is a freshwater biologist says that it is a rare variety, only grows in nutrient rich water (Max, I told you you're feeding the fish too much!) but get this, it is 43% protein and has some other great qualities. I will find her links and post them later for those who may be interested.

      Next, Brendan and Sage rescuing tiny fish from the blanket of duckweed.

      Koi in the net!

      John Clark with one of the capon-sized frogs we grow here. Male, apparently. Returned to the pond.

      Koi to follow!
      Attached Images Attached Images        



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2013

    12. #4372
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      2. Large koi pets of the Learning Curve variety.

      - First up, Big Yama, followed by Gloria.
      - Next, Party Girl, a homie, she has no tolerance for stress.
      - Shiro muji from Japan to Unadilla NY, to me.
      - Angel Face
      - Big Mama
      - Creamsicle
      - Lucy
      - Basket of little things -- total # 565 -- all went with John.

      - Home bred hariwake
      - A messy asagi, but keeping for now to see if ki develops
      - home bred silver fish with red pecs and tail color --- what is this? anyone know?
      - Louis with a sweet face,
      - a shiny orangy-red doitsu with a white dorsal fin. This is interesting to me because it is an F1, one of 365 offspring of the oyagoi in my siggy line. Mother was definitely a shusui, dad was either an ogon or a midori = random offspring and actually i find it quite attractive.

      - misc. flock spawned babes; bekko, shusui w/ asagi markings, hariwake
      - and a home bred long fin hariwake.
      And I think that's all the pond grade pets you need to see.

      Total # of fish returned to the pond, about 210
      John put 67 adult koi and 565 small ones into his truck to be rehomed.

      And next up, my fave in this pond, Thelonius (not a monkfish )
      Attached Images Attached Images                 



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2013

    13. #4373
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      3. My sweetie ki asagi Thelonious :)

      Thelonious was Thelonia last year so whoever asked, "Is it a 'she'?" was right. This is a male. However, I didn't load the pix so that his personal parts would be first!

      This ki asagi was hatched here about five years ago. I don't know its' parents but I have had many ogons and asagi in this pond.

      Without further ado, my fave pet boy.
      Attached Images Attached Images       



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

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    14. #4374
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      4. there are 250, 1.5 yr old ki shusui and ki shusui wannabes in the Learning Curve

      I am being called to dinner, so here's a place saver.
      I have thoughts and questions for the team and plan to post pix in a couple of hours.
      CU soon.
      As always, yr. comments are welcome.

      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Last edited by Koigrl; 11-02-2018 at 12:47 PM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2013

    15. #4375
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      5. F2 Ki Shusui, the next generation ;)

      For me, the most important part of the pull on Thursday was to see the batch of F2 ki shusui who were homed into the Learning Curve Pond.
      From a batch of 750 we viewed in May 2018, 250 stayed in the Lower Pond aka the nursery. 250 went to the Big Pond, and 250 went to the Learning Curve Pond where they had to compete for resources. I'll show a few that I lifted out and gave them their close-ups.

      I notice once again, if the ki pattern is on white skin or palest blue, it shows as yellow.
      Place that pattern on a darker blue background, the ki shows up as green and the fish is essentially midori.

      Of the ki shusui in the final picture, I would probably cut the orangy ones, the shusui and choose three or four of those with the best confirmation and placement of the ki lateral markings to use as oyagoi in the future, depending on how they develop.

      Although I have kept a crazy number of ki shusui from the F2 spawn, I'm glad I could keep them to watch them grow on.

      People who were here for the pulls feel that this batch is smaller and brighter.
      In the next post, I'll re-post a tub of 1.5 yr olds from the Lower Pond where they got an extra meal a day and no competition from larger fish -- and this batch who had to compete with hundreds.

      Intermission. Pls. stand by.
      Attached Images Attached Images                          
      Last edited by Koigrl; 11-02-2018 at 12:49 PM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
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      K-POTY 2013

    16. #4376
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Koi from the same spawn living in two different ponds.

      First tub are the ki shusui from the Learning Curve Pond -- 350k gals of flow through well water, competing for food with 250 sibs, 250 adults, 565 littles, two meals a day.

      Second tub are the ki shusui from the Lower Pond == 135k gals of flow through, 250 kids by themselves, three meals a day.

      All had access to the super 43% protein duckweed.

      Do you see any differences?

      Thanks for taking a look!


      P.S. Information on duckweed from Heather Parsons, freshwater biologist and friend of the ki shusui project.



      Duck weed as a food source high in protein; scientific evidence that it is good for fish to eat

      http://www.fao.org/ag/aga/agap/frg/lrrd/lrrd7/1/3.htm



      basic information on duckweed why is it growing how to control etc.

      https://wric.ucdavis.edu/information...la-Wolffia.pdf



      native to florida

      https://plants.ifas.ufl.edu/plant-di...ela-polyrhiza/



      use of duckweed to remove nitrogen and/or add nitrogen to other systems

      https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...78429017306500



      needs high ammonia and phospgorus; provides shade; reduces algal growth; high protein food; duck weed is thriving due to high nutrient loads into the system

      http://bioponica.net/growing-duckweed/
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      Last edited by Koigrl; 10-28-2018 at 09:34 PM.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

      If you're reading this, you're on Team Ki.
      Kichi loves company. Max


      K-POTY 2013

    17. #4377
      rainblood's Avatar
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      Yikes, that just looks cold and dirty.
      A couple of random thoughts:

      1. Theres a lot of great personalities in there
      2. I see Rosie passed on some of her Chinook genes
      3. These look more football-esque, I assume environmental
      4. Yer fav boy still looks great
      5. Unadillaville horror actually has a great body
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    18. #4378
      Koigrl's Avatar
      Koigrl is offline Supporting Member
      is koigrl is looking forward to
      more snow!
       
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      Yikes, that just looks cold and dirty.
      A couple of random thoughts:

      1. Theres a lot of great personalities in there
      2. I see Rosie passed on some of her Chinook genes
      3. These look more football-esque, I assume environmental
      4. Yer fav boy still looks great
      5. Unadillaville horror actually has a great body
      Rain, good news on the shiro muji. i kept him out of sentiment, now i have to name him.
      Yes, was cold and dirty! Singing Gloria-ahhhhh. She also came from Unadilla.
      The pond has completely filled since thurs. 5:00 p.m., fresh clean well water, plus ground water, plus ahem Rain.
      365k in three and a half days is a first.
      Thelonious says "thanks, Mr. Rainblood!"
      The environmental factors are various. Next year I have to do a serious weeding out in the lower pond and pick the best of all.
      You are formally invited.



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

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    19. #4379
      Riftlake is offline Senior Member
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      Wow,Wow,Wow! So many beautiful fish! You are having great success, and I believe it has only just begun. Best wishes on the continued success of your project! I would love to do something like that.

    20. #4380
      rainblood's Avatar
      rainblood is offline Assembler of Water Droplets
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koigrl View Post
      Rain, good news on the shiro muji. i kept him out of sentiment, now i have to name him.
      Yes, was cold and dirty! Singing Gloria-ahhhhh. She also came from Unadilla.
      The pond has completely filled since thurs. 5:00 p.m., fresh clean well water, plus ground water, plus ahem Rain.
      365k in three and a half days is a first.
      Thelonious says "thanks, Mr. Rainblood!"
      The environmental factors are various. Next year I have to do a serious weeding out in the lower pond and pick the best of all.
      You are formally invited.
      Yum yum frog legs and steamed carp..I can't wait

      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

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