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View Full Version : When you can't use settlement chamber systems??.



john stevens
02-28-2007, 03:35 PM
I am building a new 7000 gallon pond and am finding it near impossible to incorporate settlement/vortex/or other gravity type settlement systems into the site. I won't go into the reasons, but it would be darn difficult and I would severly have to compromise asthetic concerns. Any gravity system would require the vortex, sump, nexus etc. etc. to be burried. as such draining the settlement off would have to be accomplished by pumps. Gas lines and water lines might need to be moved. I do understand the advantages of gravity feeding from bottom drains. But it aint gonna happen So..... I am contemplating a suction drain arrangement that would go something like this. Three seperate loops. Loop one..... would be skimmer, to pump, to waterfall. loop one could be diverted to mid level returns in the winter. Loop two would be Bottom drain, to pump, to 2.2 bead filter, to UV, to heater , to moving bed K1 media, then gravity fed to pond. Loop three would be bottom drain to pump, to 2.2 bead filter, to TPR's. The pond would be roughly peanut shape, though not exactly and would have the bottom drains situated in the center of each peanut end, with gradual sloping from the bottom of side walls to drains. The pond depth would be 5-6' deep. each loop would have its own pump. Each pump would be 2500-3000GPH. Bottom drains would be air dome type. I want this to be my last pond ( at least at this house!) I always keep up with backwashing, and water changes. Could this arrangement be called a "proper pond", and can I achieve water quality worthy of of good koi with this arrangement.

john stevens

jadigger
02-28-2007, 03:57 PM
You might consider some giant leaf traps ,theres one kind out there Iíve seen
Donít remember the brand, someone here will ...
With a pressure system you can go with bigger pumps

john stevens
02-28-2007, 04:45 PM
You might consider some giant leaf traps ,theres one kind out there Iíve seen
Donít remember the brand, someone here will ...
With a pressure system you can go with bigger pumps

The pumps I am thinking about would have leaf traps built in. I asume you are talking about some other type of leaf trap before the pump housing and empeller?

John

Joey S
02-28-2007, 04:53 PM
Oh, boy - three pumps with almost nothing in front of them to remove leaves, crap, algae, junk. It's like feeding all this 'stuff' into three blenders, making everything fines and then trying to filter out the fines. We have some pretty smart people here!! Can you post a drawing of the offending water, gas and other lines that are in the way. Surely, we can find a way to put in a vortex for your BD's at least.

john stevens
02-28-2007, 06:12 PM
Oh, boy - three pumps with almost nothing in front of them to remove leaves, crap, algae, junk. It's like feeding all this 'stuff' into three blenders, making everything fines and then trying to filter out the fines. We have some pretty smart people here!! Can you post a drawing of the offending water, gas and other lines that are in the way. Surely, we can find a way to put in a vortex for your BD's at least.

Hi Joey, You are correct of course, it could be done. I understand completely the desirability of a gravity fed settlement system prior to hitting the empeller. But from an asthetic point of view it would require reconfiguring everything very drastically. To the point of ruining a very established lanscape plan. We have a very beautiful pond at present. Its ten years old and one of the gems in our landscape. It was built before I became aware of the koi community on these chat boards. at that time I thought 36" would be plenty deep.(LOL) its very nice but not propper. I am afraid the landscape compromises required would make the project a no go. The settlement chambers could to be burried, and pumped out. But I would have to sacrifice some pond size. 7000 gallons seems to be another minimum requirement of proper pond design. There is no elevation drop that would allow for a walk in filter room below the pond water level. We could pump to a raised vortex, but that would negate there purpose. I should say that we live in a very old historic house in a historic district were the houses are tightly packed next to each other. the lot size is very narrow. and very short and lots of expensive patio, deck, landscaping. Existing out buildings would be compromised. I do appreciate your point. I do understand the bennifit in reducing Disolved organics. I am sure there are those koi-kichi enough that all other priorities in the landscape are secondary to perfect pond design. I am sure my wife is not one of them.(LOL) I can see your pond philosophy, and I will put you down as a definet NO.....my proposed arrangement could not be called a proper pond!

Thanks for your response!

John

pskorf
02-28-2007, 06:36 PM
well i say yes.
i have a 10,000 gallon pond 23 X 17 with only 1 bottom drain sloping 4-6 ft. at drain drain is about 2/3 the way from waterfall where water returns from both the skimmer circuit and the bottom drain circuit.I have been very happy with my water.i have 2 1/3 hp artesians running to an ultima(one for each) and then one goes to moving bed then to waterfall.This is inside just as a little hint but i am so happy with it.main thing is keep up with maitnence (very easy) and do not forget to stop backwashing the bottom drain.

stephen
02-28-2007, 06:42 PM
I am building a new 7000 gallon pond and am finding it near impossible to incorporate settlement/vortex/or other gravity type settlement systems into the site. I won't go into the reasons, but it would be darn difficult and I would severly have to compromise asthetic concerns. Any gravity system would require the vortex, sump, nexus etc. etc. to be burried. as such draining the settlement off would have to be accomplished by pumps. Gas lines and water lines might need to be moved. I do understand the advantages of gravity feeding from bottom drains. But it aint gonna happen So..... I am contemplating a suction drain arrangement that would go something like this. Three seperate loops. Loop one..... would be skimmer, to pump, to waterfall. loop one could be diverted to mid level returns in the winter. Loop two would be Bottom drain, to pump, to 2.2 bead filter, to UV, to heater , to moving bed K1 media, then gravity fed to pond. Loop three would be bottom drain to pump, to 2.2 bead filter, to TPR's. The pond would be roughly peanut shape, though not exactly and would have the bottom drains situated in the center of each peanut end, with gradual sloping from the bottom of side walls to drains. The pond depth would be 5-6' deep. each loop would have its own pump. Each pump would be 2500-3000GPH. Bottom drains would be air dome type. I want this to be my last pond ( at least at this house!) I always keep up with backwashing, and water changes. Could this arrangement be called a "proper pond", and can I achieve water quality worthy of of good koi with this arrangement.

john stevens

As long as it is at least 4 ft deep, I would say that would be a winner.

john stevens
02-28-2007, 07:03 PM
well i say yes.
i have a 10,000 gallon pond 23 X 17 with only 1 bottom drain sloping 4-6 ft. at drain drain is about 2/3 the way from waterfall where water returns from both the skimmer circuit and the bottom drain circuit.I have been very happy with my water.i have 2 1/3 hp artesians running to an ultima(one for each) and then one goes to moving bed then to waterfall.This is inside just as a little hint but i am so happy with it.main thing is keep up with maitnence (very easy) and do not forget to stop backwashing the bottom drain.

Thanks for your reply Paul..... Do you measure Disolved organics.... any foam on the water surface? can you achieve a zero reading on nitrite with a sensitive kit? Your backwash advise is well taken. I am a big water change guy, so backwashing is a great way to ensure water changes get done. My current pond has two auquadine 2.2's plus the moving bed K1 media. I think the moving bed K1 is the secrets to getting out that last bit of nitrite. 80 watt U.V. etc. I backwash them on alternate days. One bottom drain , one skimmer, Its only 40" deep and 3000 gallons. My first koi lost in 10 years this winter. No lie! had some nice ones go down when the water temp dropped ten degress in just a few days. Thats why I am rebuilding. Really would love to go with gravity fed vortex type system, but the rest of our landscape/hardscape is so fixed its just not going to happen. I am hoping to hear some success stories from others. We shall see........



John

pskorf
02-28-2007, 07:23 PM
i stink at water testing.no foam and have not measured my nitrites in a long time.do not mearsure disolved organics either.have not had a problem with nitrite in past and i just keep a routine,but i have tryed palnting a few plants in rock and even some floating plants to try and soften up waterfall area.They die so i figure nothing there to keep them alive.
that should raise a few eyebrows on here.

Harveythekoi
02-28-2007, 07:39 PM
I ditto the bigger basket, not all pumps have built in ones and I'd find this important enough to change them. Not neccessarily on the skimmer where it can have it's own basket but for sure on the bottom drains.

WLim makes a pressurized micro screen that would be good ahead of the bead filters. Remember that bead filters have all the stuff being crammed in 24/7 and only a few minutes to try and backwash out. Not gonna happen very effectively when used as a primary filter.

Are you raising the level of the pond at all? Is there a way to at least have flooded suction on the pumps? That would allow at least a small settlement with screen too. If the pond were raised 2' (typical) a Nexus would only be buried about 2' in the ground and give far better filtering for the BDs and better bio too in just about the same footprint as the beads. A very small sump with trash pump gets the waste away same as bead filters (where do you pump those?).

Just some thoughts.

Garrett

birdman
02-28-2007, 08:33 PM
What about a pond sieve?

john stevens
02-28-2007, 08:38 PM
I ditto the bigger basket, not all pumps have built in ones and I'd find this important enough to change them. Not neccessarily on the skimmer where it can have it's own basket but for sure on the bottom drains.

WLim makes a pressurized micro screen that would be good ahead of the bead filters. Remember that bead filters have all the stuff being crammed in 24/7 and only a few minutes to try and backwash out. Not gonna happen very effectively when used as a primary filter.

Are you raising the level of the pond at all? Is there a way to at least have flooded suction on the pumps? That would allow at least a small settlement with screen too. If the pond were raised 2' (typical) a Nexus would only be buried about 2' in the ground and give far better filtering for the BDs and better bio too in just about the same footprint as the beads. A very small sump with trash pump gets the waste away same as bead filters (where do you pump those?).

Just some thoughts.

Garrett

Hi Garrett, thanks for your response.I will seek out info on bigger leaf baskets. the ones built in to my current pumps do rtequire frequent cleaning, but they do trap a bunch of stuff before the empeller gets them! Raising the pond would be helpful, but asthetically and ergonomically it may be problimatic. The old pond , and the to be rebuilt new one is directly in front of a blue stone patio just a few steps out our family room french doors. 50" to be exact. Then There is a flat blue stone bridge leading across the pond and then up the side walk. if the pond was raised it would require a step or two up, then a step or two down once the bridge is crossed. This is our major walkway to the parking area and back gate. you can imagine my wife with a bag of groceries in each arm walking in the back gate , up the side walk then up two steps across the 8' bridge then down two steps......would look silly i am afraid and might be dangerous. (LOL) Good thought though. The filter foot print is o.k. the problem is the existing bead filters are sitting on a very thick concrete drainage pad to the left of the pond, and actually in a space between my home and the historic home next to me. A no mans land of common ground designed to drain rain water from between houses down to the storm drains out front. Its where my bead filter back wash goes! The filters have tasteful redwood surounds with decking tops to disguise them. I am already bending the rules and testing my neighbors patients by putting the bead filter on this city owned spot. If I moved the filter foot print in from the area it would come to rest in the pond, or on our very small blue stone patio. We could burry it there , or we would lose a section of patio, or of course it would have to be burried very deep indeed. I will check into your micro screen pre filter. At this point I would like to say that other than the obvious problem of 36" depth and 3000 gallon smallish size I have had good results with the current duel system bottom drains to bead filters to moving bed K1 arrangement.
Thanks for your input

John stevens

keith berland
02-28-2007, 09:10 PM
John,

I think you will be fine. The often stated idea that pumps grind up everything is overblown. They will grind some up but if you backwash often no big deal. The W.Lim pressurized prefilters would be a good idea between the pump and the bead.
I installed a suction bottom drain feeding a nexus that gravity returns a few years ago works fine.

Many ponds without gravity feed filtration do just fine build it and enjoy.

john stevens
02-28-2007, 09:35 PM
John,

I think you will be fine. The often stated idea that pumps grind up everything is overblown. They will grind some up but if you backwash often no big deal. The W.Lim pressurized prefilters would be a good idea between the pump and the bead.
I installed a suction bottom drain feeding a nexus that gravity returns a few years ago works fine.

Many ponds without gravity feed filtration do just fine build it and enjoy.

Thanks for your reply....two yesses and one no..... As I have said I would prefer the settlement option, but the compromise required is not palletable to the wife! (LOL) (I do want to build a pond I will not regret.) Please direct me to info on these pre filters ???W.lim prefilters???

John Stevens

Cowiche Ponder
03-01-2007, 03:32 AM
http://www.wlimproducts.com/ go to products and then filtration and it is the first one on that page Wave Pressurized prefilter.

Steve aka Birdman also mentioned the pond seive by EA.

http://www.evolutionaqua.com/display.php?display_id=16&class_id=16

boggen
03-01-2007, 04:14 AM
count me as a no, yes, depends catagory.

i realize what ya said, and can only guess of all the ya ya of being in a histroical district and dealing with local goverment / histrocal district commitees. i realize you are hard core against the idea, but never hurts to try and see what ya think about it.

you gotta have room to place your above ground filters. so why can't you dig down into the ground were they will be. and place your mechanical pre filters below ground. then build a stand over them. to place your above grond filters on? (( ay i realize you said a drainage ditch, but without pics am but guessing of what it all looks like ))

with flow rates you stated and size of pond. then would assume 55 gallons with with micro screens and spray bars for self cleaning micro screen. would work for ya better than directly plumbing drains to pump.

you saying cost, but cost of bead filters and other pressurized filters, are close to the same once you start counting up costs.

john stevens
03-01-2007, 09:10 AM
count me as a no, yes, depends catagory.

i realize what ya said, and can only guess of all the ya ya of being in a histroical district and dealing with local goverment / histrocal district commitees. i realize you are hard core against the idea, but never hurts to try and see what ya think about it.

you gotta have room to place your above ground filters. so why can't you dig down into the ground were they will be. and place your mechanical pre filters below ground. then build a stand over them. to place your above grond filters on? (( ay i realize you said a drainage ditch, but without pics am but guessing of what it all looks like ))

with flow rates you stated and size of pond. then would assume 55 gallons with with micro screens and spray bars for self cleaning micro screen. would work for ya better than directly plumbing drains to pump.

you saying cost, but cost of bead filters and other pressurized filters, are close to the same once you start counting up costs.

Thanks Boggen for your response and help. Sorry I havent been able to provide pictures for everyone to aid in your understanding. I dont have a digital camera, but maybe I can figure out some to get some visuals up for everyone. Your design could be implimented.....But the filter would have to be moved inward into my patio area, or into the existing pond area. this could be done, And I am looking hard at some way to do it that would not require giving up valuable pond or patio space. My only obvious option would seem to be complete burrial. I am willing to look at that. The "drainage ditch" is really a concrete sidewalk between my house and the house next to mine that is sculpted and tappered in such a way as to drain rain water out to the front street curb. The area is actually city property, and a right of way between house. The down spout gutters from both houses run down the sides of our houses and threw the side walk and then tie into an underground drainage system beneath the walkway. So I can't dig down there. My current system of bead filters and K1 boiling media sit on top of the concrete in this area. I am sorta breaking the rules already by locating it there, but since its above ground, and has a movable redwood surround, and not anchored, I am getting a free pass about it. We just pretend its a very expensive trash can enclosier between the houses! Cost was not my concern as much as preseravtion of our limited patio area and pond size. I could burrie some type of settlement system below the blue stone patio and pump out the waste, but I am unclear as to how that would work out. Blue stone lids over the sump areas would sure be heavy!(LOL) The other thing with burried settlement chambers is I am not clear on how I could service them. I am willing to look at this option, and would like to hear from anyone having success with this arrangement. I could tunnel bottom drain lines about 25 feet and make it to my basement, but the settlement chambers would have to touch the top of the cieling to be at sea level! At least then the pumps would be in a flooded situation! (LOL) I will check out the micro screen and other pre- bead filter options.

thanks for your help
John Stevens

Harveythekoi
03-01-2007, 10:27 AM
Digital cameras are dirt cheap now, go to Wal-mart and you can get a low end one for $20 or so.

Any way to make a drawing? Paint comes on most computers and allows simple line drawings and such and isn't very hard to figure out with a little playing.

With that said how are your filters hidden now? Is there room for a few more pieces even if they're above ground? With both BD's being direct suction you could tie them together and feed one filter. Putting a flow meter on each line would be cheaper than another pump, prefilter and filter for each not to mention the room saved.

Garrett

Noahsnana
03-01-2007, 11:18 AM
Built in leaf traps may catch some stuff but you will constantly cleaning the baskets.

john stevens
03-01-2007, 11:33 AM
Digital cameras are dirt cheap now, go to Wal-mart and you can get a low end one for $20 or so.

Any way to make a drawing? Paint comes on most computers and allows simple line drawings and such and isn't very hard to figure out with a little playing.

With that said how are your filters hidden now? Is there room for a few more pieces even if they're above ground? With both BD's being direct suction you could tie them together and feed one filter. Putting a flow meter on each line would be cheaper than another pump, prefilter and filter for each not to mention the room saved.

Garrett

Hi Garrett, I am behind the times with the camera. I got thousands of dollars in old 35 mm equipment thats obsolete! I will see if I can get some kind of plan up on this board when I get some time......O.K, the bead filters and boiling k1 filters are above ground and situated on the concrete side walk that runs between the two houses. The filters are hidden inside a large redwood box, or encloser, with a red wood top. we usually put clay pots with impatiens or something on top of them in summer. Yes we could add above ground filtration units easily. Just have to build a bigger redwood box. Now having said all this I was out looking and measuring this morning and on the other end of the pond we have 36" from the edge of the pond to my property line and privacy fence. I believe it might be possible to sink some type of settlement chambers there. They would have to be sunken in the ground , and waste would have to be pumped out. Some specimin plants would have to be relocated, but it could be done. Anyone with a positive experience with sunken settlement chambers? I am all ears! (LOL)


Thanks,

John

john stevens
03-01-2007, 01:35 PM
O.K. I am listening to everyone and after some soul searching and wife beating (LOL) I can have the 36"-40" x 8'of area on the other side of the pond area. This should be enough to squeeze a burried settlement tank in before the pump pick ups . from there I can use a couple of pumps and push the water to the beads, boiling k1 tanks ,heater, u.v. tpr etc.. I visited the www.wlimproducts web site and looked over the vortex settlement tanks avaiable. The model 36 looks like it would be big enough to take two 4" B.D.s I see that a self cleaning micro screen is available if desired. I was intersted in, but skeptical of the "Do it yourself" bio filter proposed on the site. Opinions requestes! Anyone had any experience with these settlement tanks?

Thanks Again

John stevens

Koiguy1
03-01-2007, 01:50 PM
Boggan what size pumps do you recommend he use in the drawing that you did
count me as a no, yes, depends catagory.

i realize what ya said, and can only guess of all the ya ya of being in a histroical district and dealing with local goverment / histrocal district commitees. i realize you are hard core against the idea, but never hurts to try and see what ya think about it.

you gotta have room to place your above ground filters. so why can't you dig down into the ground were they will be. and place your mechanical pre filters below ground. then build a stand over them. to place your above grond filters on? (( ay i realize you said a drainage ditch, but without pics am but guessing of what it all looks like ))

with flow rates you stated and size of pond. then would assume 55 gallons with with micro screens and spray bars for self cleaning micro screen. would work for ya better than directly plumbing drains to pump.

you saying cost, but cost of bead filters and other pressurized filters, are close to the same once you start counting up costs.

boggen
03-01-2007, 02:38 PM
650gph to 1000gph is required normally per micro screen. for the spray bars.
with pond being around 7,000gph, and figuring one hour turn over rate. and spliting the flow through 2 bottom drains. that are connected to 2 settling chambers with micro screens.

a pump that can produce 8,300gph to 9,000gph. at what ever the head loss comes to for the filteration system.

boggen
03-01-2007, 02:45 PM
O.K. I am listening to everyone and after some soul searching and wife beating (LOL) I can have the 36"-40" x 8'of area on the other side of the pond area. This should be enough to squeeze a burried settlement tank in before the pump pick ups . from there I can use a couple of pumps and push the water to the beads, boiling k1 tanks ,heater, u.v. tpr etc.. I visited the www.wlimproducts (http://www.wlimproducts) web site and looked over the vortex settlement tanks avaiable. The model 36 looks like it would be big enough to take two 4" B.D.s I see that a self cleaning micro screen is available if desired. I was intersted in, but skeptical of the "Do it yourself" bio filter proposed on the site. Opinions requestes! Anyone had any experience with these settlement tanks?

Thanks Again

John stevens

don't know about manufactored stuff. wlim may pop in and give some info. or you could contact him through the website of his.

you may want to check out birdmans DIY settling chamber made from a 500 gallon ag tank.

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51997

easy and simple to do. if you are going the route of a single mechanical pre filter with both bottom drains connected to it.

Joey S
03-01-2007, 02:51 PM
O.K. I am listening to everyone and after some soul searching and wife beating (LOL) I can have the 36"-40" x 8'of area on the other side of the pond area. This should be enough to squeeze a burried settlement tank in before the pump pick ups . from there I can use a couple of pumps and push the water to the beads, boiling k1 tanks ,heater, u.v. tpr etc.. I visited the www.wlimproducts web site and looked over the vortex settlement tanks avaiable. The model 36 looks like it would be big enough to take two 4" B.D.s I see that a self cleaning micro screen is available if desired. I was intersted in, but skeptical of the "Do it yourself" bio filter proposed on the site. Opinions requestes! Anyone had any experience with these settlement tanks?

Thanks Again

John stevensHaven't used the Wlim, but I have a Cyclone one made by Patio Ponds. It has input for two bottom drains, holds 150 gals. Have had it two years and it REALLY captures lots of gunk. Don't have any micro screen in it. When we first installed, we put a layer of mat on a grid at the top. Caught a lot of fines, but a pain to clean. Took that out and now have mesh bags of pvc. Much easier. Of course, self cleaning would be even better. Got it thru azponds.com

Harveythekoi
03-01-2007, 03:45 PM
And they will handle 2 bottom drain inputs but it is hard to balance the flow between them. In my post above I mentioned flow meters for direct suction, that would be harder to do with buried piping.

Micro-screen is a huge plus.

Do a search on Kent Wallaces threads. He uses them a lot and does multiple inputs on quite a few of them.

Garrett

aquaman
03-01-2007, 04:27 PM
If you are looking for a great pre-filter, take a look at our TURBOVORTEX. It is easy to install and the inlet can be at pond level. Another nice feature is that it is backwashable. www.fluidart.com and click the Turbovortex button. We have had great results with this unit. Thanks Jay

wlim
03-01-2007, 07:54 PM
And they will handle 2 bottom drain inputs but it is hard to balance the flow between them. In my post above I mentioned flow meters for direct suction, that would be harder to do with buried piping.

Micro-screen is a huge plus.

Do a search on Kent Wallaces threads. He uses them a lot and does multiple inputs on quite a few of them.

Garrett

Wave 36 and my Micro-Screen :clap: 3 of 4"bottom Drain can go to one wave 36 and my screen 250 micro, can run 20000gph with my wave pumps 3-wave II 1/4 hp :bow: :yahoo:

Cowiche Ponder
03-01-2007, 09:28 PM
O.K. I am listening to everyone and after some soul searching and wife beating (LOL) I can have the 36"-40" x 8'of area on the other side of the pond area. This should be enough to squeeze a burried settlement tank in before the pump pick ups . from there I can use a couple of pumps and push the water to the beads, boiling k1 tanks ,heater, u.v. tpr etc.. I visited the www.wlimproducts web site and looked over the vortex settlement tanks avaiable. The model 36 looks like it would be big enough to take two 4" B.D.s I see that a self cleaning micro screen is available if desired. I was intersted in, but skeptical of the "Do it yourself" bio filter proposed on the site. Opinions requestes! Anyone had any experience with these settlement tanks?

Thanks Again

John stevens

John I have the wlim microscreens..they work great!

Kent Wallace
03-01-2007, 11:23 PM
Hey John, here are those pics.

Harveythekoi
03-02-2007, 12:00 AM
Kent is the master of small spaces. I've never seen anyone cram so much stuff into such little areas. Better yet it all works. :D:

Garrett

Cowiche Ponder
03-02-2007, 01:59 AM
Kent it's good to see nutmeg on posts again!

john stevens
03-02-2007, 08:45 AM
Kent .... Thanks for your help and pix, Is this the wave 35 plus micro screen, or some other flat bottom settlement tank. I am nor sure I understand why you are putting in the 55 gallon sump pump arrangement . Why not just let the main pump pull the waste out the bottom of the vortex cone when ever you want to go to waste? for 7000 gallons I assume you would use two 4" drains to the wave? Then use one or two pumps to pull about 7000gph out of the wave 35 to what ever bio arrangement. I got two 3" tetra drains sitting on a shelf .... I guess I shouldnt use them?.....pitch em out ,right Another thank you to everyone else following this thread and giving there opinion.

John Stevens

birdman
03-02-2007, 09:15 AM
Hi John, someone mentioned my DIY vortex filter. If you can dig up one of these Ag Water tanks and DIY it they really work well and can save you a bundle of money. The two I have are 4' wide by 6' high, about 500 gal each. Another option, you can buy a new 4 by 4 cone bottom tank, DIY it into a vortex, for much less than buying a vortex filter, and it would be much bigger in volume. The best source for the cone top tanks is ag irrigation supply stores.

john stevens
03-02-2007, 09:27 AM
Hi John, someone mentioned my DIY vortex filter. If you can dig up one of these Ag Water tanks and DIY it they really work well and can save you a bundle of money. The two I have are 4' wide by 6' high, about 500 gal each. Another option, you can buy a new 4 by 4 cone bottom tank, DIY it into a vortex, for much less than buying a vortex filter, and it would be much bigger in volume. The best source for the cone top tanks is ag irrigation supply stores.

Hi Steve. Thanks I saw your project and diy vortex. I am keeping my mind open and looking around for the stuff for a diy version. I dont think I got 4' of room... maybe 40" max. Just curious ...what do you gotta shell out for the 4x4 cone bottom cone tank?

john

john stevens
03-02-2007, 10:02 AM
Wave 36 and my Micro-Screen :clap: 3 of 4"bottom Drain can go to one wave 36 and my screen 250 micro, can run 20000gph with my wave pumps 3-wave II 1/4 hp :bow: :yahoo:

Hey Wlim, good talking to you again. If I go this route, what would you recomend for bio filters after the wave 36?....my pond will be a 7000 gallon pond. From my old pond I already have...... two, 2.2 bead filters with blowers and a 100 gallon tank upflow, gravity return, with boiling Kaldnes media. The kaldness tank can only handle about 3500 gph. One 80 watt u.v., and two 3" tetra drains. One 3500gph artesian pump. one 3500 gph submersable. would you try and use any of this stuff in the new pond? I also have aquestion about your DIY bio filter. I assume this filter is in addition to your wave 36 settlement chamber..... or does this single tank do it all.....settle, and bio react? Thanks,

John

wlim
03-02-2007, 10:25 AM
Hey Wlim, good talking to you again. If I go this route, what would you recomend for bio filters after the wave 36?....my pond will be a 7000 gallon pond. From my old pond I already have...... two, 2.2 bead filters with blowers and a 100 gallon tank upflow, gravity return, with boiling Kaldnes media. The kaldness tank can only handle about 3500 gph. One 80 watt u.v., and two 3" tetra drains. One 3500gph artesian pump. one 3500 gph submersable. would you try and use any of this stuff in the new pond? I also have aquestion about your DIY bio filter. I assume this filter is in addition to your wave 36 settlement chamber..... or does this single tank do it all.....settle, and bio react? Thanks,

John Hi ,John look like you only need Wave 36 and 12" or16 "Microtrainer and with 4' outlet pus all pumps you need Dragon pump for 2.2 bead filter wave for k -one will do the job e- mail kENT FOR :yes: THANK yOU

boggen
03-02-2007, 10:41 AM
Kent .... Thanks for your help and pix, Is this the wave 35 plus micro screen, or some other flat bottom settlement tank. I am nor sure I understand why you are putting in the 55 gallon sump pump arrangement . Why not just let the main pump pull the waste out the bottom of the vortex cone when ever you want to go to waste? for 7000 gallons I assume you would use two 4" drains to the wave? Then use one or two pumps to pull about 7000gph out of the wave 35 to what ever bio arrangement. I got two 3" tetra drains sitting on a shelf .... I guess I shouldnt use them?.....pitch em out ,right Another thank you to everyone else following this thread and giving there opinion.

John Stevens

our normal ever day pond pumps that run 24/7 can not handle muck, as soon as you try to have them pump muck. they clog, and then clog some more. you spend most of the time just cleaning the muck out of them. when used to clean up muck from a filter.

a submersable trash pump that can handle solids say 1/4" or 1/2" in size. can deal with the muck without clogging. normally these pumps can be bought on the up and cheap. due to you are only running them for a short amount of time. and they do not run 24/7. meaning the amps of the motor are not big deal.

unlike or normally ever day pond pumps were amps and how much electricy the use do mater. due to 24/7 usage. that stuff reall starts to rack up electrical costs.

john stevens
03-02-2007, 03:48 PM
Hey Boggen, and everyone else. thanks for all your posts. I got a little bad news today. One of the reasons we are rebuilding our pond other than the obvious short commings is that i had an underground return line rupture in the middle of the night during a deep freez spell 3 weeks ago and we lost 1.5 feet of water. The pumps lost there prime, everything was locked up frozen by the time I got up. I thought I saved the bead filters before they split open , but this afternoon I started working on trying to restart and it looks like I may have to replace them both. At this point it might just be better to go a complete new direction and use the wave 35 with micro, and go with a more traditional bio filter arrangement. I see Wlim has the wave 24 & 36 bio filters . you can use k1, or jap matt. What would guys you advise?

John

Cowiche Ponder
03-02-2007, 09:14 PM
I've got the bio wave plus from William and it's been great. Easy to clean (love turning on the blower and it sounds like it's gonna take off!)

Get the settlement in there of some kind or the pressurized prefilter or something to get the poo out of the water before the pump