PDA

View Full Version : Fish swimming in circles



Leland
04-17-2010, 09:25 PM
Hi, I woke up today and my fish are swimming in circles, it's like they can't swim or anything. My Butterfly koi died a few hours later. Some of the fish are swimming in circles and losing control of their bodies. At first i thought it was swim bladder disease, but since a couple of fish have it, it's seems contagious. All but my two largest fish have it, so I don't think it's protozoan or bacteria-related. This happened suddenly.

UPDATE: IT MIGHT BE PROTOZOAN OR BACTERIA-RELATED because I found cloudy growths over the head and eyes.

Could it be temperature shock? I recently moved the fish from inside to outside. All the parameters are fine. pH- 7.5. Ammonia - below 1.0. According to the test strips they are fine.

I also added a lot of pond salt. 4.4 pounds into a 1300 gallon pond, so I don't think it would be overdose since the box said 4.4 pounds would treat 500 gallons. However just in case it was overdose I did a 40% water change today.

I am stumped, though...

totallyvictorian
04-17-2010, 10:24 PM
I don't know if this would apply, and I'm sure someone more knowledgable
will answer you...but, I have a Yamabuki that swims in circles. She was close to a lightning strike. I thought she was going to die, but she pulled through..but swims in circles now. Did you have any kind of storms?

RichToyBox
04-17-2010, 10:31 PM
I would be looking at poisoning as my first thought, since it came on quickly. Swimming in circles sounds neurological to me. PP will oxydize many of the poisons, major water changes may help.

NaturesCall
04-17-2010, 11:14 PM
Electrical shock? Is your pump submersible?

Leland
04-18-2010, 02:05 AM
I have moved the largest (and most vibrant) 3 fish into a 60 gallon tank for now in quarantine. I have treated them with Quick Cure (Formalin/Machalite Green) and Fungus Clear. I might put Parasite Clear tomorrow but I didn't have any at hand.

On closer inspection through the aquarium, some of the fish have cloudy eyes and their skin on the forehead has kind of a whitish cotton over it.

They are swimming regularly in the tank, but are not eating (so far). They are breathing quite heavily, but I don't know if that is due to disease or to stress from moving. The water in the tank is a lot warmer than the pond and is filtered extremely well.

Right now there are no fish in the pond...but tomorrow I am going to buy some healthy crappygoi to put in the pond to see what exactly is wrong with the pond. If I leave the pond with no fish, will the diseases stay in the pond without a food source? Can I "starve" the fish to death?

Thanks for your responses.

Leland

Leland
04-18-2010, 02:11 AM
That's like 7-8 koi, including one I've had for 7 years :(.

nmtsaki
04-18-2010, 11:31 AM
I would keep treating the fish in the qt, might be columnaris, which looks like a fungus, but is a bacteria. Do you have any pictures that you can post?

nmtsaki
04-18-2010, 11:32 AM
or better yet, do a scrape and scope. You can even do that on the dead ones.

Leland
04-18-2010, 06:57 PM
ok, so day 2.

I am really relieved that I quarantined the fish, as they are doing much, much better and are eating!

I added more Quick Cure as directed by the instructions on the bottle. I added an air pump last night.

But the fish seem tons better! However while the eyes are clearing up, they are not completely gone.... tomorrow hopefully...

Leland
04-18-2010, 06:57 PM
I don't have the cash for a scope :(

there hasn't been any rain or storms recently here in SoCal, so I doubt Lightning would strike all my fish :?

nmtsaki
04-18-2010, 09:31 PM
Is there a koi group in the area that may have a KHA on hand, or a scope to lend? Not sure how to find out where a koi group is, other than to google it.

Cowiche Ponder
04-19-2010, 12:28 PM
The fish could be doing better with the treatment, but also the warmer water. What was the temp diff between inside and outside water?

Leland
04-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Actually, I think that there may have been a poison/chemical leeeched into the water. This is my first pond, so everything's kinda new to me. A few days after the pond was set up it started leaking, so I went to home depot and bought a Fix-It tube of epoxy to seal the leak. I was wondering, could that have been leeching chemicals into the water as the filter was running?

In addition, I used some all-purpose lubricant to make the handle of the filter (Ultima 2000) turn better. Could that have leeched into the water as well?

Is there a place which could test the water for toxins or whatnot?

Thanks.

CHICHI
04-19-2010, 06:42 PM
Hi ..

If the Koi Babes were fine prior to being added to the Pond then something was radically wrong with the water ..

Was the temperature differential much ?

Are your Test Strips still viable .. in date etc ..

I would PP the Water - neutralize with sodium thiosulphate (a fine detoxifier) and keep re-testing and only once the fish are fully recovered ??? attempt to add these to the Pond ..

Please don`t add any new ones in the interim :eek1: :no:

Leland
04-19-2010, 07:39 PM
If I PP the pond, will it get rid of/neutralize the toxins and chemicals that may be from the lubricant?

Can I neutralize the PP with hydrogen peroxide instead? or is sodium bisulfate better?

Thanks

Oh, and where can I get PP? Will Lowes or HD have it?

Leland
04-19-2010, 07:52 PM
Temperature stayed pretty much the same.

Test strips up to date, I used two different types and both showed the same results.

If I start all over (drain pond, clean filter) will Bleach do the work?

CHICHI
04-19-2010, 08:09 PM
Temperature stayed pretty much the same.

Test strips up to date, I used two different types and both showed the same results.

If I start all over (drain pond, clean filter) will Bleach do the work?


A More Apt Solution in your circumstances given the System is NEW might be simply to empty and Re-Fill several times .. :yes:

RichToyBox
04-19-2010, 10:27 PM
If I PP the pond, will it get rid of/neutralize the toxins and chemicals that may be from the lubricant?

Can I neutralize the PP with hydrogen peroxide instead? or is sodium bisulfate better?

Thanks

Oh, and where can I get PP? Will Lowe's or HD have it?

PP is great at oxidizing just about anything organic. The little bit of oil shouldn't have been a factor big enough to cause the problems. It sounds more like some type of yard or pest control treatment got into the water.

Peroxide works fine for neutralizing the PP, though with fish in the pond, their are some that say it crashes the ORP to fast so the neutralizing should be done with sodium thiosulfate.

Potassium Permanganate is used as a green sand filter (iron remover) regenerator. It has been available in some Lowe's and HD in the water treatment area, but if not, look for one of the local water treatment companies that install and maintain filters and softeners and ask for the green sand filter regenerator.

Leland
04-26-2010, 04:57 PM
okay, so I started all over, did a complete water change, and removed the epoxy clay, washed out the oil.

I have filled the pond and put 2small fish into it. They are doing fine, although one is 4" and the other is 2" (tiny). Today I put the rest of my bigger koi in and everyone is doing fine (eating and swimming normally). there's no swimming in circles or flashing.

However, I am worried about the little one. It is eating but it stays by the plumbing. It will swim in and out of its "comfort zone" but it always returns. Physically there is nothing wrong with the fish and it is acting normally. I also noticed that while it was in the 55 gallon tank before it was secluded also. Is that a characteristic of the fish or is it something I should be worried about. I saw some of the larger fish chasing it around so maybe the baby is scared? I hope nothing's wrong, but it is incredibly shy. Gills are breathing normally and parameters are fine. I added Desafin to prevent disease just in case.

CHICHI
04-26-2010, 05:30 PM
okay, so I started all over, did a complete water change, and removed the epoxy clay, washed out the oil.

I have filled the pond and put 2small fish into it. They are doing fine, although one is 4" and the other is 2" (tiny). Today I put the rest of my bigger koi in and everyone is doing fine (eating and swimming normally). there's no swimming in circles or flashing.

However, I am worried about the little one. It is eating but it stays by the plumbing. It will swim in and out of its "comfort zone" but it always returns. Physically there is nothing wrong with the fish and it is acting normally. I also noticed that while it was in the 55 gallon tank before it was secluded also. Is that a characteristic of the fish or is it something I should be worried about. I saw some of the larger fish chasing it around so maybe the baby is scared? I hope nothing's wrong, but it is incredibly shy. Gills are breathing normally and parameters are fine. I added Desafin to prevent disease just in case.

Two inches :eek: Poor Love .. Little Wonder it is so apprehensive :no:

I would be Tempted to keep him/her and the 4" Fry in the 55 Gallons until Grown somewhat :yes:

He`s bound to feel intimidated ... It`s Spawning season and mayhem can Ensue !!!!!!!!!